Another +ve

[doyler78]

Doping expert stunned by Riccò news

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_micera_st12

Now that's an interesting read. Ricco should never had started perhaps - sort of throws a curved ball a those that think ASO and the French Anti Doping Agency walk on water.

However I guess he would say that given his position so perhaps caution should be attached but still I think what says interesting from the point of view of the validity of the test itself.

I guess Ricco will be the phone to the lawyers already.

 

[yello]

We can tell when someone's used it but we can't declare them positive.

What exactly does that mean? How can there be one without the other?

There's mention of this Micera being a 3rd generation EPO, maybe SD thought they could get away with it because, after all, ....

We know that Micera was being used on the Giro

 

[Noodley]

Doping expert stunned by Riccò news

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_micera_st12

I'm sure much will be made of the validity of the test.

And we're more likely to find the truth in a French courtroom than under any cycling 'law'

 

[yello]

sort of throws a curved ball a those that think ASO and the French Anti Doping Agency walk on water

I beg to differ! It shows they are prepared to call the bluff of doping teams. So what if there is "no validated test', maybe they are prepared to accept the legal challenge. I mean, Professor Michel Audran ("one of the world's leading experts on blood doping") is prepared to say they tell it's being used. Time to get tough.

Sorry, I'm just hugely p*ssed off with it today. Ricco, because of his youth and stupidity, has shaken my foundations too.

 

[doyler78]

I don't think either of you appreciate just what a judgement against the ASO/French Anti Doping Agency for using a non validated test would be. They would undoubtably have to pay Ricco a huge sum of money plus his name would then be cleared when it seems he is a doper. How does that help anything. Much as we might like to try and rush things and bring forward new technologies to catch the cheats they must stand up to scrutiny otherwise we have achieved nothing. Indeed we could undermine the validity of all tests in some peoples minds.

 

[Noodley]

I don't think either of you appreciate just what a judgement against the ASO/French Anti Doping Agency for using a non validated test would be. They would undoubtably have to pay Ricco a huge sum of money plus his name would then be cleared when it seems he is a doper. How does that help anything. Much as we might like to try and rush things and bring forward new technologies to catch the cheats they must stand up to scrutiny otherwise we have achieved nothing. Indeed we could undermine the validity of all tests in some peoples minds.

Fair point. However, some people still think Tyler Hamilton is innocent. The time has come to take action.

Validated tests are contested by lawyers as it is. There as been too much pissing about. Time to act.

 

[doyler78]

Fair point. However, some people still think Tyler Hamilton is innocent. The time has come to take action.

Validated tests are contested by lawyers as it is. There as been too much pissing about. Time to act.

Fair point also and yes that is a problem however hopefully they might bankrupt themselves in the process

 

[SheilaH]

David millar had this to say about his former boss in saunier Duval:

"However, Millar believes that Mauro Gianetti, Saunier Duval's team manager, has good intentions and Riccò was more likely misled by others.
"I think that Mauro Gianetti has been taken advantage of and he is someone I have a lot of respect for," said Millar. "He does not deserve this and he has a good heart. He has perhaps put a lot of trust in people that he shouldn't have and he will learn from this.
"I guarantee - you watch Mauro - he will have an independent anti-doping programme within the team by the end of the year. He was close to doing it last year, and now he is going to have to extend his budget and get that programme in place. It is by doing that the sport will change."

 

[Noodley]

Fair point also and yes that is a problem however hopefully they might bankrupt themselves in the process

I can see riders and the the fans losing. And those who run the sport and the lawyers winning.

The article about the Festina doping 'scandal' in this month's ProCycling which I mentioned earlier reckons cycling could clean up in 6 months if there was any degree of effort put into it. Not sure if this is realistic but it gives some hope I suppose...

I look forward to Kimmage's next article. I don't like his 'holier than thou' condemnation of everyone who has ever been suspected/been found guilty of doping as I can appreciate the pressure (I blame the teams/managers/doctors more than the riders, but still get pissed off with the riders) invloved, and I find it rather strange given he admitted to it. But I have always believed him, and others who have spoken out, 100%.

 

[yello]

hopefully they might bankrupt themselves in the process :?:

Sorry, who is "they" here? ASO? Or teams/riders.

I'm agreeing with Noodley here. Let's have none of this Hamilton/Landis pissing about. Contest as much as you like in courts of law but you'll not ride in our tour, ASO have shown they will say that (with Astana) - right or wrong.

doyler78, I think you under estimate ASO's will (and the sponsors, let's not forget the TdF is a business!) to rid the Tour of dopers. If it costs them in legal fees then that will be a business decision. Either way, teams are "invited" to the tour; suspected/tainted teams/riders will simply not get an invite. End of story.

Supportive and positive words from Millar there SheilaH. I personally don't think Millar would have pulled any punches had he had reason to believe there was a doping culture at SD.

 

[Rob S]

Liked Gary Imlach's completely unbiased statement at the end of today's ITV4 coverage...after saying Ricco's wins were too good to be true he stated that Cav's won three stages completely clean....drug tests results must be announced pretty promptly for him to say that...he'd only won his 3rd stage about 3 hours earlier.

 

[yello]

I guess it's the riders you're nobbed off with (so to speak) not The Tour per se. Whoever is running The Tour is doing their best to ensure it's drug free and for that they should be commended.

Oh absolutely I'm nobbed off with the riders dopers! I'm fully supportive of the TdF and it's efforts to get rid of the cheats.

As a related aside, I'm wondering how effective the 'rider's passport' has been. I wouldn't be surprised if it's played a big role in producing these positives. Certainly, and I'm going out on a limb here, if this 3g EPO is so difficult to validate.

 

[Noodley]

I'm wondering how effective the 'rider's passport' has been...

..not very, I would venture.

 

[yello]

.drug tests results must be announced pretty promptly.

I doubt they are. Ricco's test was after Stage 4 wasn't it?? I suspect the labs are 24/7 with testing at the moment! I reckon results take a while.

Please don't even suggest Cav is doping! I have this somewhat naive belief that British riders (or those having come up through the new auspices of the BCF training regimes) are clean clean clean. If someone pisses on that belief then I really will be depressed!

 

[doyler78]

Sorry, who is "they" here? ASO? Or teams/riders.

I'm agreeing with Noodley here. Let's have none of this Hamilton/Landis pissing about. Contest as much as you like in courts of law but you'll not ride in our tour, ASO have shown they will say that (with Astana) - right or wrong.

doyler78, I think you under estimate ASO's will (and the sponsors, let's not forget the TdF is a business!) to rid the Tour of dopers. If it costs them in legal fees then that will be a business decision. Either way, teams are "invited" to the tour; suspected/tainted teams/riders will simply not get an invite. End of story.

Supportive and positive words from Millar there SheilaH. I personally don't think Millar would have pulled any punches had he had reason to believe there was a doping culture at SD.

I was of course talking about any rider challenging a doping ban from a validated test.

How exactly did anyone piss about with Landis, et al. They were removed, sacked by their teams and the riders appealed their expulsions. That's exactly the same process that will happen now so your point is what?

Its no only legal fees that they will get hit with they are proved to acted illegally. They will have to compensate Ricco for loss of reputation, loss of earnings and pay his legal fees. That will be substantial. Any business that operates along the line of taking risky decisions is one doomed to failure. You see tough I see foolish. If they spent their money on ensuring that the test which is nearly ready (if you believe the professor) then that would be money better spent.

I think ASO should take a tough stance on cheats but they must not act outside the law because that discredits them and cycling.

As for all these teams getting banned not invited where the hell is the evidence for that. Astana. What about the rest? What about Liquigas and Barloworld where is the ban there. Its seems to me that you see something much more robust than I do.