Any Runners On Here??

[User169]

Hi @DP As you are the aficionado of all things Ghent, any recommendations for a decent running route around the city, am visiting in Aug and have to incorporate a longish run into my agenda? (have a marathon in Oct and need a long slow Sunday run).

I haven't investigated too many running routes I'm afraid. I only run laps of the Watersportbaan which is a 5km loop. Might get a bit boring for a long run!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watersportbaan

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Well, this thread is a little sparser than it used to be...

The two years or so I was away from CC weren't good for me in fitness terms. After a succession of injuries I really let myself go. But after several false starts, this year I've finally got back into it. I decided on a whim to do a 10k race when I was over in Victoria BC in April, and it was painful and my time was awful (47.52), which made me realise that had to do something. I immediately signed up for a couple of races back home (an 8k at the beginning of June and a 10k at the start of July), and while in each race I recorded the worst time I've run in them (35.54 and 46.30 respectively), there were clear improvements. In the meantime, I came up with a schedule, which I've mostly stuck to, I've lost 2kg or so in weight and things aren't so bad.

However, that's just the start. I decided that I should continue to just sign up for races I want to do and work towards them, and rather than stick with 10k's to aim higher (well, longer). I'm going to be away in different countries this coming few months, which adds some interest too. So, first up will be a forest half-marathon in Denmark in September, then another half-marathon in Japan (where I will be from early October to mid-January) in October, and then... my first ever marathon, also on Japan, in late November.

Why have I decided to run a marathon when I'm still in such poor racing shape? Well, precisely because I'm such poor shape, and I can't be if I'm going to run a marathon! And I have time: four months is plenty. At my age, there's no point in worrying about getting a lot faster or trying to run massive mileage every day, so I'm trying a simple model. Each week, I will do:

1. One marathon-paced run of around 7.5-10k (5.15 min / km).
2. One easy-paced distance run. This week it was 15k, but it will increase to 20k+ by the end of August, 30k by the end of September, and 40k by the end of October.
3. One tempo run. Right now that's 7.5k, but it will gradually increase to around 15k by the end of October, but the aim is increased and sustained high pace here not distance.
4. One speed workout - intervals, hill repeats, whatever... in Japan, this will be my running club's Wednesday night track session.
5. Two sessions of some kind of cross-training. When I am in Japan one of these will be an intense 2-hour taiko drumming sesssion. Otherwise, weights, swimming, cycling, yoga - anything that isn't running basically.
6. One complete day off.

And let's see how it goes...

 

[Truth]

I know its relative but I wouldn't say ypur race times were anywhere near poor! Like I say its all relative to how fast you were doing them before I suppose.....

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I know its relative but I wouldn't say ypur race times were anywhere near poor! Like I say its all relative to how fast you were doing them before I suppose.....

Yeah, it's very much personal and relative!

My break from running really started in 2015, even though I did a couple of events in 2016 and 2017, but then nothing at all in 2018. And just because I ran those events, I really wasn't 'training' during that time. I was basically just running occasionally, and that got to be more like hardly ever towards the end of 2017.

But I used to be pretty good for my age. In the year before this slow collapse (2014), my best half-marathon time was almost dead on 1:30:00, my best 10k was 40:36, and my best 8k was 31:24. I didn't run any 5ks on the road, but my best 5k track time trial result was 18:30.

I was probably still trying to run too fast, which may have contributed to the injuries. I'm getting on towards 50 now, so 'longer and slower' is the motto...

 

[Truth]

Impressive times mate . My best half marathon is 1.43..... i was well chuffed with that at 50

 

[huwsparky]

@Flying_Monkey have a look at the Barry P running plan. I honestly think you're complicating things a bit too much. Having a history of injuries his style of plan should suit you. You need to realise now that
1. 4 months isn't a long time to train for a marathon
2. Getting the best out of yourself over that distance doesn't really require much speed work and it's risky from an injury viewpoint.
3. You don't need to run close to 40k in training, that'll likely put you out of any meaningful training for a couple of weeks which kind of throws out the purpose of what your trying to achieve.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

@Flying_Monkey have a look at the Barry P running plan. I honestly think you're complicating things a bit too much. Having a history of injuries his style of plan should suit you.

Thanks, I will check it out.

You need to realise now that
1. 4 months isn't a long time to train for a marathon

I know. But that's what I've got! And I am going to give it a go. In my longer term schedule, the marathon I'm really aiming for in terms of performance isn't this one, it's another one in October 2020. This is one is just to have done one.

2. Getting the best out of yourself over that distance doesn't really require much speed work and it's risky from an injury viewpoint.

I've already adjusted my schedule, reducing the pace and distances for most things to be a lot more realistic, based on where I feel I am now.

But one speedwork / intervals session a week isn't overdoing it - and that will be the first thing to go, if I have to cut something on any given week - so it's probably more like once every two weeks until I get to Japan in October because I'll be travelling so much. I am also very aware of where I am now in terms of speed. I am doing to run my pace(s), not someone else's. However, running tempo is absolutely crucial to building up stamina as well as my general running fitness - that's from my own experience of training as well as everything I've read. So that weekly session is crucial.

3. You don't need to run close to 40k in training, that'll likely put you out of any meaningful training for a couple of weeks which kind of throws out the purpose of what your trying to achieve.

With respect, there are very different opinions on that. To put the counter argument: 1. running 40k easy is nothing like running it in a race - I ran 20k easy (6:15/km) pace this morning and it was nothing like running a half - I've had a normal and active day afterwards; and 2. it's after doing that one and only 40k, that I will begin to taper, so yes, heavy, if not meaningful, training is indeed over after that point.

In terms of injury, if anything does it, it's much more likely the two halfs I'm going to run...

 

[Tenkaykev]

Hi Flying Monkey,
Your plan looks OK, as long as you don't get injured. Of course with the number and type of weekly runs you're increasing that risk.

I take it that you'll be easing back every 4th week to allow your body to catch up? That will lessen the risk of injury.

When I was doing a bit I'd plan my long run for six weeks before the event and taper down, 40k is fine if you build up to it, 45k is better. ( trained my daughters friend for her first marathon, I made her long training run 28 miles, she said afterwards that it made the Marathon a lot less daunting)

Another thing to consider is what time of day the Marathon is, allowing for the different time zone. Then start your long training runs at the same time the race will start so your body gets used to it ( I've memories of heading out my front door at 4:30am in February sleet when training for one particular race)

All the very best with your training and remember, don't get injured :-)

 

[huwsparky]

In terms of injury, if anything does it, it's much more likely the two halfs I'm going to run...

Can agree with that. I didn't even race a 5k before the race, but I only got tough to running about a month out. Shame I didn't have another 6weeks for another couple of blocks but that's that. I'll probably have another go at something next year.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Hi Flying Monkey,
Your plan looks OK, as long as you don't get injured. Of course with the number and type of weekly runs you're increasing that risk.

3-4 weekly runs, with the bulk at 'easy' pace is the actually the minimal model. Most of the higher intensity plans advocate running 6 days a week.

I take it that you'll be easing back every 4th week to allow your body to catch up? That will lessen the risk of injury.

I had incorporated some ebb and flow - the tapering for events covers most.

When I was doing a bit I'd plan my long run for six weeks before the event and taper down, 40k is fine if you build up to it, 45k is better. ( trained my daughters friend for her first marathon, I made her long training run 28 miles, she said afterwards that it made the Marathon a lot less daunting)

I think you are right. I do plan to run 25k before my halfs and I think 45 as the final long easy run before the taper to the Full might be a good idea.

Can agree with that. I didn't even race a 5k before the race, but I only got tough to running about a month out. Shame I didn't have another 6weeks for another couple of blocks but that's that. I'll probably have another go at something next year.

I could always do with more time.

I looked over the BarryP plan - it's a bit daunting, but reading between the lines, for what I am doing, my whole plan (which no-one here has seen) is not far off what he's recommending, although, as you say, he doesn't like speed training at all.

Edit: as a result of looking at this and a number of other plans, I've removed the speedwork entirely from my program until much later (basically October onwards). For now, I will be adding what was the speedwork mileage to my marathon pace sessions instead, which will give me much more like the ratios that Barry P suggests.

Thanks again for the tip.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

End of month report

This month I have done a total of 134.25km, which breaks down to:
1 race (10km);
3 tempo runs (19.5km);
4 marathon-pace runs (28km); and
5 long runs (76.75km).

There should have been one longer marathon-pace run and another short tempo run but those fell victim to the bad cold I got last weekend. I waited until the cold had just about gone, on the last day of the month, to get my first over-half-marathon distance long run, 22km. It was fine until the last 2km. Overall: gradually upping distances and pace, and it's all going well. Next month will have signficantly more mileage (I only really started my program halfway through July).

 

[huwsparky]

End of month report

This month I have done a total of 134.25km, which breaks down to:
1 race (10km);
3 tempo runs (19.5km);
4 marathon-pace runs (28km); and
5 long runs (76.75km).

There should have been one longer marathon-pace run and another short tempo run but those fell victim to the bad cold I got last weekend. I waited until the cold had just about gone, on the last day of the month, to get my first over-half-marathon distance long run, 22km. It was fine until the last 2km. Overall: gradually upping distances and pace, and it's all going well. Next month will have signficantly more mileage (I only really started my program halfway through July).

Glad you're feeling good with your training. Volume for me is number one priority for importance but don't not try to add massively onto it, it's a sure fire way to getting injured. I found out first hand with a 16day break from running less than 3 months before my race. Not ideal but there will always be hurdles on the journey.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Volume for me is number one priority for importance but don't not try to add massively onto it

That's the idea. I'll add about 60km in total this month but never running more than 3 days a week. The peak week has 60km per week (still only 3 runs in 7 days), shortest in just 20km - at the end, which is a taper towards my first half-marathon this year (September 1st).

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'm off to Britain now for a month. Will mainly be running around the Hampshire downland... which I love.

 

[SteveF]

I haven't investigated too many running routes I'm afraid. I only run laps of the Watersportbaan which is a 5km loop. Might get a bit boring for a long run!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watersportbaan

Managed to sort a route out and used Komoot to navigate (was impressed with Komoot)

Just under 26k, very slowly...!

https://strava.app.link/HLe7HIRR3Y