Apalling actions from an Arriva bus driver

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Matthew_T

Matthew_T

"Young and Ex-whippet"
That sounds a little odd and I'm sorry you had a negative impression of the club ride. Was that your first and last ride or was it just an isolated experience? It may be that the other club members are not nice guys, but if so you're very unlucky. My experience of people in cycling clubs is that they're very welcoming and helpful. My boy (17 at the time) joined a local club and did some TTs. They were just as nice as pie and extremely positive and encouraging.
It wasnt an isolated incident. Most of the riders dont appreciate me taking primary at pinch points or overtaking cars. I also have a tendency to race down hills (but who doesnt?) and take risks on bends.
Apparently riding like I do with club colours on isnt a very good impression of the whole club. And someone said that a driver could see someone wearing the club kit and go after them thinking they were me.

I understand what they were saying so as a result I now have a new kit (as i am no longer a member of the club its not really right to wear the kit).
 
Not being funny but you say that the club was antisocial etc... Well if someone came out with me who had your track record and had a headcam and was filming our everymove then I'd be pretty antisocial too! I saw your recent video posted on the FB page of club people in the pub, sorry but that's just odd. Ditch the headcam, chill out and I'm sure you will find people becoming much more friendly.
 
I was a member of VCM. Rhyl CC dont have any weekday rides only at the weekend (which I am normally working on).
I am going to try and go to the local race track a few more times in the week.
You might find they do actually have weekday rides, just not advertised, its more adhoc: facebook, forum, texts, word of mouth etc every club I have been in have operated that way and its not until you join that you find out.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
It wasnt an isolated incident. Most of the riders dont appreciate me taking primary at pinch points or overtaking cars. I also have a tendency to race down hills (but who doesnt?) and take risks on bends.
Apparently riding like I do with club colours on isnt a very good impression of the whole club. And someone said that a driver could see someone wearing the club kit and go after them thinking they were me.

I understand what they were saying so as a result I now have a new kit (as i am no longer a member of the club its not really right to wear the kit).


If you take risks on a club run, you are risking the safety of all on the run. Racing on club runs is a big bad.

Try googling "club run etiquette" you will find a whole range of advice from clubs around the world.
 
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Powely

Well-Known Member
The key is subtlety... no point at all in confrontation

If you have a good case of dangerous driving

Firstly write to the company and complain, then await the reply. This will usually be the driver's version.
Then answer enclosing the video and asking why the driver is lying, and what action they will be taking about the incident and his consequent lies

Managers hate being made to look stupid.

I have one local company at the moment where the van driver stated that i was aggressive, violent and had harangued him with an foul mouthed rant..........Backed up by two of his colleagues. I asked if the manager had a written statement and when he confirmed this sent in the video. The passenger seat and centre seat where his colleagues claim to be sat is empty, and the video clearly shows that the only swearing was done by th driver.

All three are now on written warnings pending a fuller investigation, and disciplinary action


Will you take the above approach in future? As to me your video came across as you went out looking for someone to confront... the camera, carrying the highway code etc. We all encounter idiots, in all walks of life (and I realise motors v cyclists incidents can have dire consequences) but most of us just shake our heads, be thankful it wasn't worse and get on with our day. I can't help but think you get some enjoyment from 'educating' other road users, however there are better ways to do this than confronting people at the side of the road. If it's a company vehicle, just note the number and write in/send the video and await their response for example. Safe riding.

EDIT: I have just discovered you have Aspergers. I stand by what I said but partially understand why you can't just move on from an incident so easily now. Just be careful out there, confrontation typically only leads to more confrontation and it may just escalate to violence and no one wants to hear that has happened.
 

Hip Priest

Veteran
Apparently riding like I do with club colours on isnt a very good impression of the whole club.

The club is probably like this place. Some members will like what you do with the camera...etc, and others won't. I guess if some of the senior or influential club members disliked what you do, that may be why you felt the disapproval was widespread.

You seem a nice lad. It's a shame it didn't work out with the club.
 
It wasnt an isolated incident. Most of the riders dont appreciate me taking primary at pinch points or overtaking cars. I also have a tendency to race down hills (but who doesnt?) and take risks on bends.
Apparently riding like I do with club colours on isnt a very good impression of the whole club. And someone said that a driver could see someone wearing the club kit and go after them thinking they were me.

I understand what they were saying so as a result I now have a new kit (as i am no longer a member of the club its not really right to wear the kit).

This may be indicative of something being slightly fooked in your wider understanding of correct and reasonable road behaviour.

These are people who have been riding at speed, among other cyclists, in traffic on a regular basis for decades. They know what they are doing. They do it for a reason. Clubs tend to have an excellent safety record and tend to be well regarded in their local area.

The leader of a club ride has experience and responsibility in every cell of his or her being. They are leading the ride because they know stuff and can deal calmly with things.

Seriously... Get back to the club, be contrite and get back among them. You do not live in Royston Vasey; these will be nice, reasonable, helpful people.

I do not know the club, but I suspect that if they are an old, established set-up and the cycle-path thing was not an isolated incident and you were doing all that you say you were in terms of you line, your speed and your risk-taking... then you are the one who needs to be contrite.

But do it... Get back among them and learn how it is that they've enjoyed their sport and avoided confrontation for decades.

Was it a bit of an ugly bust-up with the club asking you not to wear their kit any more, or did you just stop going on runs? If you left on good-ish terms, I'd get back in there, switch your ears on and switch your mouth off. Listen, learn and enjoy.

If it ended badly, I'd get back apologise and then listen, respect their ways and learn something while keeping your mouth shut.
 

outlash

also available in orange
It wasnt an isolated incident. Most of the riders dont appreciate me taking primary at pinch points or overtaking cars. I also have a tendency to race down hills (but who doesnt?) and take risks on bends.
Apparently riding like I do with club colours on isnt a very good impression of the whole club. And someone said that a driver could see someone wearing the club kit and go after them thinking they were me.


So your local club think you're a bit of a liability, you get a fair bit of criticism from people on here and probably elsewhere. See a pattern emerging?

On my local CC's club runs, you are part of the bunch so you ride appropriately. If you behaved like that with us, you'd get told to knock it off. If you ride like a dick, expect to told you're behaving like one.


Tony.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
So your local club think you're a bit of a liability, you get a fair bit of criticism from people on here and probably elsewhere. See a pattern emerging?

On my local CC's club runs, you are part of the bunch so you ride appropriately. If you behaved like that with us, you'd get told to knock it off. If you ride like a dick, expect to told you're behaving like one.


Tony.

When I stated club riding 5/6 years ago, I got some things wrong and was gently upbraided by the Elders of the club, all in a friendly way that I understood. Imagine my contrition when I carelessly overlapped the wheel of the rider in front and brought down the whole ride at 15 mph. shoot happens on club runs if you ride your own style.

When I started riding with a ctc midweek group I rode alongside the leader and was told in no uncertain terms to stop riding so aggressively (ok that particular leader was a bit of a dick, but he was the leader and it was his ride)
 

Gez73

Veteran
"Apparently riding like I do with club colours on isnt a very good impression of the whole club. And someone said that a driver could see someone wearing the club kit and go after them thinking they were me."
Why would a driver 'go after' you? And more importantly why would your club worry about your riding not giving 'a very good impression of the whole club' there's a very clear message here! Do you wear a Cycle Chat jersey? Do you carry a copy of Cyclecraft with your Highway Code?
 
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OP
Matthew_T

Matthew_T

"Young and Ex-whippet"
Not being funny but you say that the club was antisocial etc... Well if someone came out with me who had your track record and had a headcam and was filming our everymove then I'd be pretty antisocial too! I saw your recent video posted on the FB page of club people in the pub, sorry but that's just odd. Ditch the headcam, chill out and I'm sure you will find people becoming much more friendly.
I dont film club rides. I actually take the camera off to prove that. Doesnt seem to make a difference though.
 

Kookas

Über Member
Location
Exeter
So your local club think you're a bit of a liability, you get a fair bit of criticism from people on here and probably elsewhere. See a pattern emerging?

On my local CC's club runs, you are part of the bunch so you ride appropriately. If you behaved like that with us, you'd get told to knock it off. If you ride like a dick, expect to told you're behaving like one.


Tony.


To be honest, I'm more inclined to think that these club members are the sort of people who cut up cyclists in their cars and proclaim the infamous BS, 'But I'm a cyclist, too!'

I mean, how do we know that they know what they're doing, and aren't just going on what they feel?

For most people, the gut instinct whilst riding is to give priority to cars and let them have their way with you, because you're scared of what might happen if you don't. That would make sense if cars were raging bears, and not humans controlling steel machines. As that's not the case, safe cycling often means going against intuition and our 'gut instincts'.

Those club members may well have been riding for longer than I, or even my parents, have been living, but if they spent their whole lives wearing their sidewalls out on the kerb, then they're always going to see vehicular cycling as reckless and provocative.

Just like the faces of shock and horror you get every time some randomer finds out you cycled more than 2 miles in one day.

On each of the few club rides that I've gone on, it was pretty obvious that no-one had done any sort of cycle training, or even just read up a bit on best practices. In one case, we had an odd situation where one side of the peloton was on a shared path and the other side was on the road. There was heavy oncoming traffic and absolutely no room for a safe overtake, and yet the riders on the road seemed all too happy to ride perhaps a foot from the pavement (if I'm generous). We had a caravan deliberately rush past giving us only a few inches, with the driver leaning on the horn the whole way. A skilled cyclist wouldn't have given them the room.

The riding here was far from perfect, of course, but taking primary at a pinch point or getting stuck on the road is not something a skilled cyclist should take offence to. I outright refuse to assume that club riders are some sort of authority just by way of being older or longer standing in the club.

Driving was terrible, too. People in this thread are acting like the driver saw Matthew coming and somehow knew him, and took their anger out on him because of his YouTube channel. They didn't - this was just any old cyclist to them. The driver didn't pre-empt Matthew's gesturing and pass him close in advance, either.
 
Will you take the above approach in future? As to me your video came across as you went out looking for someone to confront... the camera, carrying the highway code etc. We all encounter idiots, in all walks of life (and I realise motors v cyclists incidents can have dire consequences) but most of us just shake our heads, be thankful it wasn't worse and get on with our day. I can't help but think you get some enjoyment from 'educating' other road users, however there are better ways to do this than confronting people at the side of the road. If it's a company vehicle, just note the number and write in/send the video and await their response for example. Safe riding.

EDIT: I have just discovered you have Aspergers. I stand by what I said but partially understand why you can't just move on from an incident so easily now. Just be careful out there, confrontation typically only leads to more confrontation and it may just escalate to violence and no one wants to hear that has happened.

Bit of a weird post !!!!!!!

Will you take the above approach in future?

Yep - absolutely. Making a company aware of teh actions of their employees is entirely correct, and the responsible way to deal with such driving

As to me your video came across as you went out looking for someone to confront... the camera, carrying the highway code etc.

I have never carried a Highway code and what on earth leads you to the conclusion that I am looking for someone to confront?

Let me remind you of teh first line of my post to which you have replied:

The key is subtlety... no point at all in confrontation

As for the video........... How did you come to such a learned and concise opinion of something that doesn't actually exist?

The video is confidential between myself and the company involved and not in the public domain so you are voicing an opinion of something that you have not seen!


We all encounter idiots, in all walks of life (and I realise motors v cyclists incidents can have dire consequences) but most of us just shake our heads, be thankful it wasn't worse and get on with our day. I can't help but think you get some enjoyment from 'educating' other road users, however there are better ways to do this than confronting people at the side of the road. If it's a company vehicle, just note the number and write in/send the video and await their response for example. Safe riding.

Which is exactly what I did and you have taken exception complaining that such an action is confrontational and "looking for someone to confront".


EDIT: I have just discovered you have Aspergers. I stand by what I said but partially understand why you can't just move on from an incident so easily now. Just be careful out there, confrontation typically only leads to more confrontation and it may just escalate to violence and no one wants to hear that has happened.


Again a bizarre conclusion and I would again love an explanation how you came to this diagnosis.... was it on the evidence of the video that you haven't seen?

I think the best thing to do is delete your post and replace it with something that actually approaches reality?[/QUOTE]
 

PaulSB

Squire
The more I read this thread the more it becomes obvious there is one answer and one solution. In every situation Matthew insists and justifies why he is in the right. Until he learns this may not be the case little will change.

The CC situation is the opposite of my experience and his riding style as he described it, is not what I would expect to see on a club ride. Taking primary etc. applies more to individual riding in my view. My own riding style varies according to whether I'm with the club or solo. The senior guys in the club take the lead, the domestiques follow!!! :smile:

The bus driver experience is very similar. The close pass was poor driving but far from the worst I've experienced. Hunting down the driver etc. is confrontational. If approached in a similar manner I'm not sure I would act entirely reasonably, it could well depend on the sort of day I was having. Indicating I'd lose my job would not necessarily elicit a good response. We all like to think we would respond calmly and rationally in such situations. I know I may not and so if abused by a driver I simply keep quiet.

I've visited Rhyll several times and ridden through twice. Coming from a small Lancashire town, but located in a more populous area, of similar size I find it difficult to understand how one cyclist can encounter so many poor drivers in a relative short experience of cycling.

The world is always going to win in this situation. I'm afraid this young man needs to heed a lot of good advice here, calm down and appreciate cycling for what it is - FUN. I'd probably give up if I had the same level of stress on my bike.
 
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