Apalling actions from an Arriva bus driver

[400bhp]

I

**The driver saw what happened, agreed I had been forced off the road to avoid being hit/cleaned up but, and here's the bit that p*ssed me off, he didn't think it was that bad because I wasn't hit....!

But, (relatively speaking) that is true really, however hard to stomach.

We'll never know whether the bus driver was really weighing up the relativity of being hit / not being hit or he was thinking at an absolute level.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Watching the video, and reading (almost) all of this thread (I admit skipping over some of the one-on-one side arguments, I'd like to thank Matt for both an entertaining view and read!

I loved the highway code bit, and I found the PCSO's being put on the spot and coming up wanting even funnier. I hadn't realised this chap was real
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPs3cF8vOI


I'm hoping the serious message of the bus drivers not having a clue what they decide to 'lecture' on gets suitable response from their management too.

And my only advice to Matt? Don't use phrases like 'You've lost your job now'. I get this said to me all the time, and so far, still here. It tends to get ignored and only ever makes the speaker seem to over exaggerate their self importance.

 

[Boris Bajic]

The reason i got a camera was because I had a driver go absolutely mental when I shook my head at him because he pulled out of a junction infront of me. He went chasing me around the local streets and i eventually hid behind a car for 10 mins to make sure he was gone. Thats why I got a camera.
Since then, I dont think much worse has happened. I have stood my ground more and been surprised that people always never follow what they actually say they will do.

I dont go looking for incidents or confrontations. Believe me, if I did I would have been assaulted by now. I only confront people to at least try and educate drivers. There have been some that have listened and been grateful for my explanation. However, if everyone is ignorant to what is going on and does not take a proactive technique to dealing with bad driving, then nothing will change.
The only ones who can make a difference are the victims* (just look at court cases).

*Victims in the sense that i mean it is not an excuse. In terms of what I am saying, I mean that most vulnerable people or the people who always come out of things badly.

Matthew, you 'liked' my advice in post #361. Thank you for reading it. But then you post what I have quoted above. It is totally, utterly and 110% at odds with the advice I gave and which you 'liked'.

I do urge you strongly to take the advice I offered. I've highlighted some of the phrases you use in #388. They stand out because most UK cyclists simply do not recognise these are a part of their life. Rhyl is not Gotham City. You are not Batman. It is not funny.

Please believe me, you are not there to confront and educate other road users.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of those you confront to try to educate them. Imagine how you would respond to someone confronting you in that way to educate you...

Please, please, please take the advice I gave in post #361. If you like it enough to 'like' it, then do it. Not soon, not later. Now.

The other riders in your club (if it is anything like my boy's club) will be able to advise, guide and make suggestions. They'll also be able to give you an example of how they've managed to ride, enjoy and (above all) avoid confrontation.

 

[RWright]

I can understand what you are saying but surely this suggests that the most vunerable person on the road - the cyclist - should keep his head down and accept his lot. History shows us that unequal injustices are not resolved in this manner but rather by standing up and facing the unnatural hate that others pour on them. A hate in this case shown by the head cam to be based on ignorance - of the highway code - and an attempt to use collectice bullying. Avoiding confrontation because someone could possibly take you to a remote place and sort you out only hands the roads to those with the biggest vehicles and fastest engines. A motorcyclist would not stand for this sort of treatment so why should a cyclist just accept his lot.

You don't normally see motorcycles holding up traffic progress, they have the highest power/weigh ratio of anything on public highways. I think if bicyclists would use better judgment sometimes there would be a lot less incidents on the roads. I didn't say he should have kept his head down. I said he should have sent his video to the proper authorities along with his complaints. It is the fact that he chose to again risk his life overtaking the big nasty beast of a bus with the crazy lunatic driver that may or may not have passed too close. After that HE chose to antagonize the bus driver by passing again and then pointing at his camera. A move which in itself was so childish it was pathetic, not even to get into the following of the bus to the station for the little temper tantrum exhibition because someone made a big bad meanie gesture at him.

The entire display at the bus station was pathetic to the point of being comical. The type thing that gives cyclist a bad reputation and does nothing except create bitterness towards them all. It could have all been avoided by sending the video to the proper authorities. Instead it was probably youtubed, tweeted, facebooked and possibly posted on every social media network he could find as soon as possible. The only thing that would have made the video complete was at the end of the highway code scene, if there would have been a close up of Matthew sucking triumphantly on a pacifier. (sorry Matthew, I couldn't resist that jab ).

Sharing the road works both ways, if you know you are going to be going down a narrow road and know a bus is going to have to pass you on it, you might want to consider not filtering by the bus at the intersection to start with. I think Matthew wants to be part of a solution and I commend him for it and wish him success. Sometimes a little more thought is needed in the process.

 

[jarlrmai]

He's referencing an incident where someone pulled out on him and then chased him because Matt shook his head, apart from not shaking his head in what way did he seek that confrontation? Other than by doing something that every person does when they get cut up? That guy would not have chased a car driver, he chased Matt because Matt was an easy target, he was a bully.

You keep talking about club riders? Do you ride in a club? I have ridden with a lot of club riders when i've met them out and about and a lot of them ride in the gutter unsafely in my opinion, but mostly to avoid angry drivers. Obviously all clubs are different but club riders are not all some paragon of riding excellence and a sometimes lot are worse than commuters who generally deal with busier roads at more congested times and therefore get into more dangerous situations where as club riders are generally about the set club routes which are designed to avoid traffic and take in a few hills.

Matt has the unfortunate situation where he is a young lad riding a bike in less well off part of the world with a tiny practically non existent cycling population, he is a commuter as well, he gets the worst cycling conditions there are. My experiences is that when I rode through Kirkby at rush hour that was the worst driving I experienced, however riding through a country village on a nice weekend evening group ride, very little trouble.

There's nothing wrong with trying to change attitudes, however it will require some level of confrontation.

 

[Deleted member 20519]

Haven't we already established several times that the overtake was stupid?

 

[jarlrmai]

Yes the overtake was silly, it was silly because he overtook a long vehicle at a changing light and someone else could have been on the junction.

So the issue is was the overtake from the bus a response to this? A punishment or just normal okay driving? A mistake?

The attitudes of the drivers seems to indicate they a) don't know the law and b) consider it okay to use a bus to teach a cyclists a lesson.

 

[Matthew_T]

Matthew, you 'liked' my advice in post #361. Thank you for reading it. But then you post what I have quoted above. It is totally, utterly and 110% at odds with the advice I gave and which you 'liked'.

I do urge you strongly to take the advice I offered. I've highlighted some of the phrases you use in #388. They stand out because most UK cyclists simply do not recognise these are a part of their life. Rhyl is not Gotham City. You are not Batman. It is not funny.

Please believe me, you are not there to confront and educate other road users.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of those you confront to try to educate them. Imagine how you would respond to someone confronting you in that way to educate you...

Please, please, please take the advice I gave in post #361. If you like it enough to 'like' it, then do it. Not soon, not later. Now.

The other riders in your club (if it is anything like my boy's club) will be able to advise, guide and make suggestions. They'll also be able to give you an example of how they've managed to ride, enjoy and (above all) avoid confrontation.

I did like your post, mainly because it was an excellent idea (the whole diary thing). That could be the thing that stops me confronting people, or even shaking my head. However, I will still be displeased with bad driving (like any normal person).

I am no longer a member of a club. I only joined for the social aspect which was non existent. I was getting ignored and people had a go at me riding on the road when there was a shared use path to the right.
Its much simpler riding on your own with your own style.

 

[The Jogger]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPs3cF8vOI

I knew this was the new police apprentice scheme.

 

[Hip Priest]

I am no longer a member of a club. I only joined for the social aspect which was non existent. I was getting ignored and people had a go at me riding on the road when there was a shared use path to the right.
Its much simpler riding on your own with your own style.

Do you mean your fellow club members were having a go at you for using the road instead of shared paths? Bit odd that.

 

[Matthew_T]

Do you mean your fellow club members were having a go at you for using the road instead of shared paths? Bit odd that.

The path is on the opposite side of the road, which means crossing oncoming traffic to get to it. There was a steady stream and everyone else managed to get on it at the start. I chose to carry on until there was a safe gap and a dropped kerb. There was a driver behind me who was being patient as they could see I was trying to join the group.
Apparently in the groups mind, I caused the car to brake hard and was holding up traffic. I apologised to them and explained that I was finding it difficult but then one of the members came out with "I've got my son with me and I am trying to teach him how to correctly use the road". I felt that a visual lecture to me was probably the key to saying that what I did was wrong.

 

[Hip Priest]

The path is on the opposite side of the road, which means crossing oncoming traffic to get to it. There was a steady stream and everyone else managed to get on it at the start. I chose to carry on until there was a safe gap and a dropped kerb. There was a driver behind me who was being patient as they could see I was trying to join the group.
Apparently in the groups mind, I caused the car to brake hard and was holding up traffic. I apologised to them and explained that I was finding it difficult but then one of the members came out with "I've got my son with me and I am trying to teach him how to correctly use the road". I felt that a visual lecture to me was probably the key to saying that what I did was wrong.

I think you've been treated unfairly there. I never used shared paths on my road bike.

 

[Boris Bajic]

The path is on the opposite side of the road, which means crossing oncoming traffic to get to it. There was a steady stream and everyone else managed to get on it at the start. I chose to carry on until there was a safe gap and a dropped kerb. There was a driver behind me who was being patient as they could see I was trying to join the group.
Apparently in the groups mind, I caused the car to brake hard and was holding up traffic. I apologised to them and explained that I was finding it difficult but then one of the members came out with "I've got my son with me and I am trying to teach him how to correctly use the road". I felt that a visual lecture to me was probably the key to saying that what I did was wrong.

That sounds a little odd and I'm sorry you had a negative impression of the club ride. Was that your first and last ride or was it just an isolated experience? It may be that the other club members are not nice guys, but if so you're very unlucky. My experience of people in cycling clubs is that they're very welcoming and helpful. My boy (17 at the time) joined a local club and did some TTs. They were just as nice as pie and extremely positive and encouraging.

I'd still give it another go with the club (or with another club if there is one locally). You have a fantastic resource there in terms of having people around you who can offer advice and show by example how to ride in traffic without letting little transgressions get to you. These are people who ride regularly on your local roads at roadbike (training-run) speeds without getting into confrontations with other road users. They are the ones you can learn from - even if it means putting up with a slightly patronising lecture every now and then...

Was it just one club member who tried to give you a bit of a lecture, or did you get the impression that they were all like that?

It just seems so unlike any experience I've had of club rides.

Glad to see you're taking the thought of a written log on board. I'd persevere with the club too - and have a good try and the silent, no-gestures, no-head-shakes ride too. You will crack it and lots of the stress will just sublimate...

 

[PK99]

I am no longer a member of a club. I only joined for the social aspect which was non existent. I was getting ignored and people had a go at me riding on the road when there was a shared use path to the right.
Its much simpler riding on your own with your own style.

You have tried VC melyd, what about Rhyl CC?

BTW the convention on Club Runs, is to follow the leader - they generally have a good reason for doing what they do. Participate. Observe and Learn.

 

[Matthew_T]

You have tried VC melyd, what about Rhyl CC?

BTW the convention on Club Runs, is to follow the leader - they generally have a good reason for doing what they do. Participate. Observe and Learn.

I was a member of VCM. Rhyl CC dont have any weekday rides only at the weekend (which I am normally working on).
I am going to try and go to the local race track a few more times in the week.