Apalling actions from an Arriva bus driver

[glenn forger]

I'm sorry the fact the bus driver is wrong is almost irrelevant here.

You don't think it's alarming that professional drivers believe cycle lanes are compulsory?

 

[Leodis]

My youngest and my youngest nephew are a year apart and the best of friends. But when they were toddlers, they had an extraordinary disdain for one another.

On family holidays, one would find a quite valueless object (a stick or similar) and somehow parade in front of the other, muttering "I've got a stick" (with the clear implication that the other didn't have one). It was hilarious to onlookers, but pure, merciless war to the little boys. It was so utterly trivial, so terribly predictable and (like a scratched scab) so constantly noticeable.

Much as I wanted my nephew to be the instigator rather than my son, it was clear that both parties were equally to blame for the comical (and tragic) bitterness that they allowed to burn between them. Both went looking for it and both got it in spades. Each saw himself as the moral victor.

Our kids didn't have snacks between meals but our nephew did, so he'd leave his breakfast and then beg for a jam sandwich and sashay over to our boy as he ate it. He then gloated when our boy asked and was refused. Our boy did similar things with different media or some simple ball trick he'd mastered and the other hadn't.. Even who sat where in the bath was like the UNSC in hot debate.

Why do I tell this silly tale? Please for the life of me tell... For this reason: I find that Matthew_T's behaviour among other road users reminds me of those now-grown-up toddlers in their pomp at the age of three. The similarity in uncanny.

Matthew, there is hope. Both are now lovely boys and the best of friends. They have learned to live and let live.

You should write Mills & Boons

 

[StuartG]

You don't think it's alarming that professional drivers believe cycle lanes are compulsory?

I think it unsurprising. The issue is we don't really have a concept of professional driving unlike other activities. When Arriva (or any other company) reacts to an infraction or ignorance of road regulations in the same way as they would if it was one of their train drivers then we would be getting somewhere. Especially as train drivers have a somewhat better safety record.

Whether you are a professional road user or not, you can with little risk dispense with the Highway Code and any need to refresh and update your knowledge and skills the day you pass your test. As society is unwilling to force the issue here then relying on road user's own conscience to do so is not going to work ninety something per cent of the time is it?

I'm afraid its us collectively that are the problem. That driver was but a symptom.

 

[campbellab]

2 threats of assault from drivers quoting from the Get Out of MyWay Code. I'm not sure that the whole bus depôt doesn't need retraining. And the close pass when there are oncoming vehicles in the other lane was plain bad driving. Failure to read the road ahead, judge the speed of the vehicle he's overtaking and then squeezing in, stealing Matthew's wee bit of road.

Personally, being lazy, I'd not have done the first overtake - I would have slowed down behind the bus and then drafted it as it accelerated away from the green light. We all tend to live in a kind of Morse code kind of world where it's dash-stop-dash-stop, the stop being necessary because of the speed of the dash. Bikes, on the other hand, are very well suited to ride-pootle-ride-pootle mode, where you scrub enough speed to make stops less necessary and keep as much momentum as you can going.

That dash stop dash stop is a sign of poor driving without anticipation. You cant always maintain momentum but the amount of people who break the speed limit only to get stopped at the lights time and time again amazes me.

 

[glenn forger]

I'm afraid its us collectively that are the problem. That driver was but a symptom.

Bum gravy. It's not Matthew's fault the bus driver hasn't a clue about road traffic law. It's not my fault either. It's not any cyclist's fault. It's the driver's fault.

 

[Davidsw8]

Bum gravy. It's not Matthew's fault the bus driver hasn't a clue about road traffic law. It's not my fault either. It's not any cyclist's fault. It's the driver's fault.

True, it is the drivers' fault but one reason he couldn't be bothered to educate himself is that society generally let's him get away with it. Traffic laws are seemingly rarely enforced and when they are, the penalties are pitiful.

The other day, I watched a cyclist run a red light by overtaking a police van, the police did nothing. And I know they can if they want to as I saw a bus do the same thing in Hackney a couple of months ago and the police car put on his blues n two's and pulled him over.

I've also watched cyclists run red lights outside Kennington Tube and not one of the other stopped cyclists says anything - we should embarrass these idiots into complying with the law not just apathetically shrug it off.

 

[Matthew_T]

True, it is the drivers' fault but one reason he couldn't be bothered to educate himself is that society generally let's him get away with it. Traffic laws are seemingly rarely enforced and when they are, the penalties are pitiful.

I understand where you are coming from but Arriva are very strict when it comes to their training. They have something called a DriveSafe Driver training system which evaluates every part of their journey in detail. I have been forwarded their training material with regards to cyclists and below is a quote in relation to overtaking cyclists:

OVERTAKE CAREFULLY
· Stay back, do not travel too close when following a cyclist –
even experiencedcyclistsmay not hear rear-engine buses
approaching.
· Anticipate the elements! - Hearing senses are of crucial
importance to ‘reading the road’ so the wind, rain and traffic
noise makes it difficult forcyclists to hear, reducing their
awareness of dangers from behind.Cyclists pressing
against a headwind are even more vulnerable.
· Givecyclists plenty of room (at least a car’s width) – they
may need to manoeuvre around potholes, drain covers,
debris, to be seen more easily and discourage vehicles
squeezing past them, especially when moving off.
· It may sometimes be safer not to overtake at all (busy
traffic or approaching a bus stop) – if in doubt, hang back.
· Buses displace a lot of air. Be aware that turbulence can
causecyclists to wobble - especially with side winds.

 

[glenn forger]

I'm afraid its us collectively that are the problem. That driver was but a symptom.

How on eart can you blame the driver's ignorance on cyclists? It's baffling, it's like blaming cheese for hot weather, it's stripping the bus driver of any responsibility.

 

[glenn forger]

I understand where you are coming from but Arriva are very strict when it comes to their training. They have something called a DriveSafe Driver training system which evaluates every part of their journey in detail. I have been forwarded their training material with regards to cyclists and below is a quote in relation to overtaking cyclists:

That seems clear enough to me. Blaming cyclists for that driver/inspector's ignorance makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[StuartG]

Bum gravy. It's not Matthew's fault the bus driver hasn't a clue about road traffic law. It's not my fault either. It's not any cyclist's fault. It's the driver's fault.

Oh come on most of us haven't a clue about road traffic law. If you asked a 100 cyclists about the only legal way to enter an ASL - how many would get it wrong? More or less than 90?

There is no requirement, worse still no encouragement, to know it beyond taking your test if you drive. We just know a bit about the bits likely to get you a fine. That level of ignorance is not afforded to pilots or train drivers. We expect them to be pretty much word perfect on the rules and regulations and adhere to them. They get fired if they don't. It is society that chooses to create an environment and appropriate checking or enforcement. We don't do it for the road. Until we do then you have to be unsurprised at people's ignorance. That includes Arriva bus drivers. And it your fault if you don't accept that unfortunate reality.

Remember its your life that's on the line here. Scream at those that can help to change society. More use than screaming and pi**ing off another driver.

 

[Davidsw8]

I understand where you are coming from but Arriva are very strict when it comes to their training. They have something called a DriveSafe Driver training system which evaluates every part of their journey in detail. I have been forwarded their training material with regards to cyclists and below is a quote in relation to overtaking cyclists:

Interesting reading... the amount of buses I've had right up my proverbial and I've often wondered 'if I hit a pothole now, I'm under that bus...'

 

[glenn forger]

Now it's society's fault?

Piffle. If someone is ignorant about their job and doesn't remember their training it is not Thatcher's fault, not cyclist's fault, and not society's fault. It's that person's fault.

 

[campbellab]

I agree that the overtake on the pelican wasn't great (nb the bus driver also overtakes on another set of zig zag lines) but I didn't think it was the cause of any retaliation.

I did think the overtake by the bus driver was just a normal overtake on their part. Not saying it was good or bad - some people would be happy/acclimatized with that distance but its always harder to judge from the video. But then when the bus driver said he thought you were pulling out on him maybe it was.

I think the finger would probably mostly be instigated by the use of the airzound tbh.

Ignorance/intimidation of the bus drivers wasn't really on.

Matt, you need to stick to facts and say a lot less.

a) There was no reason to approach the driver at the depot as you didn't have any questions you should have just gone to the manager directly. You may have wanted to ask 'why did you pass so close, or why did you give me the finger?' and resolved the situation with just him but its likely this would escalate as well. Your confrontation just inflames the situation and appears a bit vindictive.

b) 'You'll be going to review' 'You do realise you'll lose your job over this' etc aren't factual and are threatening. You might wish to inform him of facts 'I'll be speaking to the depot manager' but no more.

 

[campbellab]

How on eart can you blame the driver's ignorance on cyclists? It's baffling, it's like blaming cheese for hot weather, it's stripping the bus driver of any responsibility.

I think 'us' in this example isn't cyclists but the general populace. IE generally driving enforcement is pretty poor.

 

[StuartG]

Now it's society's fault?
Piffle. If someone is ignorant about their job and doesn't remember their training it is not Thatcher's fault, not cyclist's fault, and not society's fault. It's that person's fault.

(Pauses here in realising I'm committing the sin I visited on Matthew by responding in a way likely to ramp up the other person's blood pressure even more)

Look at our own posts Glen. Immediate over the top and multiple reactions casting abuse but, from this angle, lacking understanding of what was written. Is responding with 'Bum', Piffle etc rather than a reasoned response likely to engage and convince? Or will people be more likely respond with similar abuse?

If you ride with a similar attitude you are a poor cyclist. In fact a poor person. More worrying to me is that attitude is more likely to make you a dead person. Whose fault will that be?