Are British Cycling & Sky being deliberately sexist?

[velovoice]

then your in the wrong club, our club have mixed rides every week and some of the women riders are quicker and more vocal than the male counter parts. its not about were we both work, although sustrans in itself promotes equality, then it throws cyclists and dog walkers together on the same track. which causes problems in its own right.

Pat "5mph" has already replied to the underlying issue here, but I've got to add to that by saying, you're speaking to gender inequality from the club members' perspective. (That whole "curse him/her for being faster than me" thing that men do, rather than "oh god I'm ruining everybody's day".)

In bringing in the employment analogy, I was speaking to the ride leader's experience, i.e. how happy would you be knowing someone is doing effectively less than you for more money?

Right now, Breeze Champions are doing this for love. I applaud that, but having found out that their colleagues on the "SkyRide" side are getting paid for having rides (routes, riders, publicity all pre-arranged) just handed to them, well, that really galls me.

 

[jowwy]

Pat "5mph" has already replied to the underlying issue here, but I've got to add to that by saying, you're speaking to sexism from the club members' perspective. In bringing in the employment analogy, I was speaking to the ride leader's experience, i.e. how happy would you be knowing someone is doing effectively less than you for more money?

But they are two totally different types of ride or activity.

Skyride
One is a ride for everyone, whether male, female, young or old. The ride leader whether male/female get paid the same.

the other - Breeze ride is exclusively for women only

now i ask again

would you be happy if sky/bc were asked to fund rides for men only, if the male leader did all the leg work. inthe same way the breeze lead rider does???

i would guess the answer would be no, you wouldnt be happy with that scenario at all

 

[velovoice]

But they are two totally different types of ride or activity.

Skyride
One is a ride for everyone, whether male, female, young or old. The ride leader whether male/female get paid the same.

the other - Breeze ride is exclusively for women only

now i ask again

would you be happy if sky/bc were asked to fund rides for men only, if the male leader did all the leg work. inthe same way the breeze lead rider does???

i would guess the answer would be no, you wouldnt be happy with that scenario at all

I'll answer you as I did above: No problem! But I ask you again, is there a demand for that? a need for that? Isn't it already being done all over the country in every village and town?

 

[oldroadman]

There is a fair bit of megaphone discussion here.
Facts, as alreday noted, are:
Sky Local Rides/Sky Rides are led by people who get a small compensation for doing the leading. Supported by Sky.
Breeze Rides are led by Breeze Champions who lead women-only rides because they want to do it and get more women into cycling properly. Supported by Sport England funding, which is PUBLIC money, and that means every last penny probably has to be counted. I think the scheme was a BC initiative, so they probably actually went and got the money from Sport England - what's the bet if they mantioned "wages" the whole thing would not have happened?
Both categories of ride leader could come under the heading of "volunteer", because no-one is likely to make a living from leading a few Sky Local Rides!
Voluntering is a backbone of the sport and of promoting bike riding - it's a long tradition of doing the right thing and passing on knowledge, which those of us who have been around a long while, have done and continue to do.
I don't see discrimination. I try not to find fault. I support women's racing now (as a retired competitor of a reasonable standard) with my own efforts as a volunteer. I don't feel discriminated against becsaue I don't get paid wages, neither do the women involved so far as I know, and I've actually asked the question of those who deliver.
The Sustrans analogy is silly - they are a business/charity and have plenty of full time workers, who should get paid at whatever grade they are in equally for an identical job. There's legislation for that.

Perhaps instaed of finding fault we should look positively at what's happening, and be mighty pleased that there are good people who will give time to help promote this wonderful thing, cycling.

 

[velovoice]

Both categories of ride leader could come under the heading of "volunteer", because no-one is likely to make a living from leading a few Sky Local Rides!
Voluntering is a backbone of the sport and of promoting bike riding - it's a long tradition of doing the right thing and passing on knowledge, which those of us who have been around a long while, have done and continue to do.
I don't see discrimination. I try not to find fault. I support women's racing now (as a retired competitor of a reasonable standard) with my own efforts as a volunteer. I don't feel discriminated against becsaue I don't get paid wages, neither do the women involved so far as I know, and I've actually asked the question of those who deliver.
The Sustrans analogy is silly - they are a business/charity and have plenty of full time workers, who should get paid at whatever grade they are in equally for an identical job. There's legislation for that.

Perhaps instaed of finding fault we should look positively at what's happening, and be mighty pleased that there are good people who will give time to help promote this wonderful thing, cycling.

Thanks for your input. I agree that's the ideal.

As I said, people do this for LOVE not money. This discussion has crystallised my thoughts on several issues around this -- I certainly didn't have set-in-concrete views on it when I first saw FD's post. In the end, what I'd like is for everybody to be doing it as volunteers. I'd like SkyRide leaders to be more actively involved in route planning, reccie rides and risk assessments. And to do it for free. As the Breeze Champions do.

I am very glad that BC/Sky does provide excellent ride leader training, with a respected qualification at the end of it.

 

[jowwy]

I'll answer you as I did above: No problem! But I ask you again, is there a demand for that? a need for that? Isn't it already being done all over the country in every village and town?

but are they being funded by sky/bc in the same way your asking breeze to be funded. By the public purse

 

[oldroadman]

Thanks for your input. I agree that's the ideal.

As I said, people do this for LOVE not money. This discussion has crystallised my thoughts on several issues around this -- I certainly didn't have set-in-concrete views on it when I first saw FD's post. In the end, what I'd like is for everybody to be doing it as volunteers. I'd like SkyRide leaders to be more actively involved in route planning, reccie rides and risk assessments. And to do it for free. As the Breeze Champions do.

I am very glad that BC/Sky does provide excellent ride leader training, with a respected qualification at the end of it.[/quote]


Does this apply to Breeze leaders as well, if it does that would be a benefit worth having, who knows where it could lead?

 

[oldroadman]

Does this apply to Breeze leaders as well, if it does that would be a benefit worth having, who knows where it could lead?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I'm still having trouble with the discrimination point. If there is equal opportunity for both riders and leaders in the open Sky rides then I would prefer seeing a greater effort towards getting women to lead those rides - they're not races, they're primarily participation events, so there's no need for the balls-out high-testosterone riding anyway. And having women leaders would, I'd have thought, in turn encouraged a greater uptake from women.

As it is, I believe the Sky rides were open from the start but there was a very unequal uptake, and Breeze was bolted on to try to reduce that disparity. So be it.

But, as long as the open Sky rides are genuinely equal opportunity then I feel there's no real cause for beefing about how the Breeze rides are organised. I'd prefer to see them as ''feeder'' rides and judge them by their results, in terms of more getting more women on bikes, be it by participating on Breeze rides, Sky rides, or simply riding around a lot more.

(I should admit that I'm not a BC member and I've never been on a Sky ride. I have been on woman-led CTC rides and have no problem whatsoever with that.)

 

[jowwy]

the question was this - are sky/bcbeing sexist. answer NO. because whether the sky ride leader is male or female they both get paid the same and both get training and given routes.

breeze is a totally different event/activity being funded by a different funding stream (public purse), therefore even though its being actuvely publicised by sky/bc its not their place to fund it.

 

[totallyfixed]

Hilarious! Discrimination is endemic throughout women's cycling, not specifically talking about volunteering so I will not derail this thread, but really, do some research people.

 

[velovoice]

I'm still having trouble with the discrimination point. If there is equal opportunity for both riders and leaders in the open Sky rides then I would prefer seeing a greater effort towards getting women to lead those rides - they're not races, they're primarily participation events, so there's no need for the balls-out high-testosterone riding anyway. And having women leaders would, I'd have thought, in turn encouraged a greater uptake from women.

As it is, I believe the Sky rides were open from the start but there was a very unequal uptake, and Breeze was bolted on to try to reduce that disparity. So be it.

But, as long as the open Sky rides are genuinely equal opportunity then I feel there's no real cause for beefing about how the Breeze rides are organised. I'd prefer to see them as ''feeder'' rides and judge them by their results, in terms of more getting more women on bikes, be it by participating on Breeze rides, Sky rides, or simply riding around a lot more.

(I should admit that I'm not a BC member and I've never been on a Sky ride. I have been on woman-led CTC rides and have no problem whatsoever with that.)

Again, conflation of open access with equal opportunity.

I went on several SkyRides when I first started cycling. Lots of wobbly children. Lots of stops and starts. Lots of crashes. Maybe that's not typical of all SkyRides but frankly my arthritic knees could not take the stress and worry. Nor could my arthritic head.

I just want a quiet life, honest.

 

[Kookas]

Hence I posed questions. Hence the question marks. This interwebs lark isn't as hard are you are making out.

Now if you want to claim that you have never ever experienced those things when riding with men, go ahead.

But that's just a characteristic of people you don't like. It's not something that means you'll hate every man, because not every man has those characteristics. There's no guarantee you'll like every woman on a woman only ride, either.

 

[StuAff]

Again, conflation of open access with equal opportunity.

I went on several SkyRides when I first started cycling. Lots of wobbly children. Lots of stops and starts. Lots of crashes. Maybe that's not typical of all SkyRides but frankly my arthritic knees could not take the stress and worry. Nor could my arthritic head.

I just want a quiet life, honest.

The London Freewheels (as they were first named) were the same. Nobbers who should have been elsewhere, if not on the road at all, weaving all over the road and around little kids at high speed. People deciding to stop in the middle of the road with no reason. Marshals who seemed determined to cause as many logjams as possible but not deal with aforementioned nobbery. And so on. I had fun a couple of times, but the last one was too much stress and too little fun.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Again, conflation of open access with equal opportunity.

I thought I was taking open access and equal opportunity as good and the unequal uptake as the problem. Am I right in thinking that you're taking the unequal uptake on Sky rides as an indication that there was never genuinely open access in the first place? For me, I'd rather positive action to promote women as both participants and leaders within the Sky ride framework - both genders doing the same work for the same nominal amount of money - without the risk of a Breeze ghetto.