Are we being forced to go electric?

[Deleted member 26715]

An internet pop up today says Alfa's next all electric car (due by 2026) will have a range of close to 500 mile. Obviously as Alfa is part of the group that owns Fiat, Peugeot, Vauxhall etc one would think this would apply to all the makes.

Once the range does hit circa 500 miles that is when electric cars would become an option for me.

The thought of Alpha Romeo & batteries is just a frightening thought with their history of electrics

 

[cougie uk]

An internet pop up today says Alfa's next all electric car (due by 2026) will have a range of close to 500 mile. Obviously as Alfa is part of the group that owns Fiat, Peugeot, Vauxhall etc one would think this would apply to all the makes.

Once the range does hit circa 500 miles that is when electric cars would become an option for me.

It's not the same as petrol though. How often would you drive 400 miles in one stretch ?

The rest of the time you've paid for that battery and lugging it round with you.

 

[CXRAndy]

An internet pop up today says Alfa's next all electric car (due by 2026) will have a range of close to 500 mile. Obviously as Alfa is part of the group that owns Fiat, Peugeot, Vauxhall etc one would think this would apply to all the makes.

Once the range does hit circa 500 miles that is when electric cars would become an option for me.

Its clickbait headline numbers. No way will it have 500 mile range.

Why do you need a vehicle that can have that much range?

Its not safe or clever to do more than a couple of hours driving non stop.

The best average speed you are likely to attain in the UK door to door is around 55-60mph. So 120miles is plenty then have comfort/drink stop. Recharge at that point

 

[icowden]

Why do you need a vehicle that can have that much range?

100% this.

The reason we have cars with large petrol tanks and long range is because we have to drive somewhere to fill them up. It's about the convenience of not having to do that too often. With EVs you fill up at home 99% of the time. You don't need to carry all that extra capacity around.

Average car journey length in the UK is 9 miles (if you have passengers). Even assuming that that is going somewhere, and you have to go back again, that's 18 miles before you can recharge. Of course, occasionally we all make longer journeys but most people take rest breaks (and everyone should be taking rest breaks!!)

 

[Chislenko]

100% this.

The reason we have cars with large petrol tanks and long range is because we have to drive somewhere to fill them up. It's about the convenience of not having to do that too often. With EVs you fill up at home 99% of the time. You don't need to carry all that extra capacity around.

Average car journey length in the UK is 9 miles (if you have passengers). Even assuming that that is going somewhere, and you have to go back again, that's 18 miles before you can recharge. Of course, occasionally we all make longer journeys but most people take rest breaks (and everyone should be taking rest breaks!!)

Some of us don't do average journeys!

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The reason we have cars with large petrol tanks and long range is because we have to drive somewhere to fill them up.

Do you honestly believe that?

Sorry just to add, isn't that the same as only charging your battery up to 20%?

 

[Alex321]

100% this.

The reason we have cars with large petrol tanks and long range is because we have to drive somewhere to fill them up. It's about the convenience of not having to do that too often. With EVs you fill up at home 99% of the time. You don't need to carry all that extra capacity around.

Average car journey length in the UK is 9 miles (if you have passengers). Even assuming that that is going somewhere, and you have to go back again, that's 18 miles before you can recharge. Of course, occasionally we all make longer journeys but most people take rest breaks (and everyone should be taking rest breaks!!)

We do, but we don't usually expect to refuel when taking such a break (particularly when a long journey is mostly on motorways with ridiculous fuel prices in services).

It will require sufficient FAST charging facilities in all motorway services (and other common stopping places) to really make it practical to only have a range of 2-3 hours driving.

There will need to be enough for everybody who is stopping there to be able to plug in at the same time, and they will need to be able to charge enough for another 2-3 hours driving in about 20 minutes.

 

[cougie uk]

Evs require a different mindset to combustion engines.

 

[CXRAndy]

We do, but we don't usually expect to refuel when taking such a break (particularly when a long journey is mostly on motorways with ridiculous fuel prices in services). Its no inconvenience to plug in before eating/comfort break

It will require sufficient FAST charging facilities in all motorway services (and other common stopping places) to really make it practical to only have a range of 2-3 hours driving. Like in the very early days of ICE, they were few places to refuel, but infrastructure has grown. Personally I've never needed to do an emergency electric top up on long journeys. I have over 100K miles of driving EV's over 4 years

There will need to be enough for everybody who is stopping there to be able to plug in at the same time, and they will need to be able to charge enough for another 2-3 hours driving in about 20 minutes. If you arrive at a supercharger(Tesla) with 20% in the battery, in 25mins you will be back up to 80-85% of SOC. Good enough for another 150miles easily

in bold

 

[Chislenko]

At present once a week I drive down to see my mother who is now in a care home.

Journey distance is 140 miles each way, just shy of three hours each way.

I am by no means an expert but I don't believe there is a mass market electric car (at the moment) that could do this journey without me having to stop and recharge adding time to my journey and consequently curtailing the time I spend with my mother. (There are no charging facilities at the care home)

I did last week have to dash into a service station en route for a call of nature and there sat playing on his phone idling away time was an EV owner waiting for one of the three points to become available. So not only does this chap have to sit there bored to tears whilst his car charges he has to do it waiting for one to become free.

As I said previously we don't all do "average journeys" people travel all over the country for work etc.

Until these vehicles have a decent range and a decent infrastructure is put in place then they are not for me.

However I accept that for people who only go to the local shops etc then they are viable.

 

[icowden]

Some of us don't do average journeys!

True, but policy and planning tends to focus on average usage not on outliers.

That said, as EV take up increases heavy investment is being made in battery tech - it's the new gold rush. Who can produce the best and most cost effective battery. Tesla introduced the 4680 battery which increased range by over 50% and halved costs. That's going to keep happening. If you plot the below in Excel and draw out a linear trend, you get to 500 miles median range by 2030. However in 2016 median range jumped hugely but remained pretty static until 2019 when it started increasing again. SO we may well get there sooner.

From the Energy.gov website:

Model Year	Median Range	Maximum Range
2011	68	94
2012	76	265
2013	82	265
2014	84	265
2015	90	270
2016	218	315
2017	194	335
2018	213	335
2019	239	370
2020	259	402

 

[icowden]

Journey distance is 140 miles each way, just shy of three hours each way.
I am by no means an expert but I don't believe there is a mass market electric car (at the moment) that could do this journey without me having to stop and recharge adding time to my journey and consequently curtailing the time I spend with my mother. (There are no charging facilities at the care home)

Tesla Model 3 long range will do this.

 

[Chislenko]

Tesla Model 3 long range will do this.

From £56,500, it's hardly mass market, i.e. affordable for the masses!

 

[CharlesF]

[QUOTE="Chislenko, post: 6765202, member: 109999"

there sat playing on his phone idling away time was an EV owner waiting for one of the three points to become available.

[/QUOTE]

This highlights the need for plentiful, working charging points spread evenly throughout the country, rather than 500 mile range in an EV,

 

[Alex321]

in bold

At some point that may become true. When the rest of what I said does.