Are we being forced to go electric?

[MrGrumpy]

Also utterly wrong:

https://grid.iamkate.com/

Currently just 3% generated by coal.

Wind your neck in ! Interesting looking at the charts further down. I assume the reliance on less renewables is down to the quiet weather . Ie no wind !!

 

[farfromtheland]

How do you get your electricity ? Not all is green . Some are nuclear , some are diesel powered , some are even made from burning waste . There are waste disposal power generating sites being built in this area to get rid of waste generated in London ! All of the contractor vehicles are burning fossil fuels . How does the waste get to those sites? Most likely by an internal combustion engines vehicle !

Vast amounts of London garbage goes by barge convoys to the Veolia waste transfer station downriver - most of it is then burnt for power unfortunately, but more is being used for methane generation I believe. Since we have a methane surplus and hydrogen is processed via an intensive methane burn it makes more sense to burn methane in cars directly. I am not satisfied that enough research is going into disposable exhaust filters that could catch half of the CO2 or perhaps more. They would at least be a cheap stopgap for petrol/methane engines, but would be ugly and need replensishing every 2 weeks. Cheap is a dirty word where business innovation is concerned.

I rather fancy the Astral; I like the gyroscope concept and I could drive it along the canal as well as on the roads.

I was thinking today, as I pedalled along the canal towpath and watched the swan gliding serenely along knowing that under the water its legs and feet were going like billy-oh, why aren't there more efficient ways of travelling on water using human power?
Yes I know there is rowing your boat and paddling your own canoe (or kayak!) - sailing being impractical on a canal - but those are rather wet, splashy and primitive. I picture something vaguely like a recumbent but in a boat, and while you sit in comfort, warm and dry in a nice enclosed capsule/cockpit, coffee by your side, you are cranking quite gently on pedals which drive a paddlewheel or propeller (or something else - I know very little about efficient propulsion in water), well-shielded from the driver/rider/boater so there's no chance of getting wet.

Sailing is a good thing - but inland waterways can work for freight if we revamp and upgrade the canal network. Minimal energy required once done and the work involved is not impractical if the will is there. The Victorians did it and there are still various ship canals operating over vast distances worldwide. Railways also make sense. A lighter weight container system could do for both - less development cost than electric vehicle infastructure I'd bet, but needs strategic planning rather than business enterprise.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

I rather fancy the Astral; I like the gyroscope concept and I could drive it along the canal as well as on the roads.

I was thinking today, as I pedalled along the canal towpath and watched the swan gliding serenely along knowing that under the water its legs and feet were going like billy-oh, why aren't there more efficient ways of travelling on water using human power?
Yes I know there is rowing your boat and paddling your own canoe (or kayak!) - sailing being impractical on a canal - but those are rather wet, splashy and primitive. I picture something vaguely like a recumbent but in a boat, and while you sit in comfort, warm and dry in a nice enclosed capsule/cockpit, coffee by your side, you are cranking quite gently on pedals which drive a paddlewheel or propeller (or something else - I know very little about efficient propulsion in water), well-shielded from the driver/rider/boater so there's no chance of getting wet.

 

[BrumJim]

Vast amounts of London garbage goes by barge convoys to the Veolia waste transfer station downriver - most of it is then burnt for power unfortunately, but more is being used for methane generation I believe. Since we have a methane surplus and hydrogen is processed via an intensive methane burn it makes more sense to burn methane in cars directly. I am not satisfied that enough research is going into disposable exhaust filters that could catch half of the CO2 or perhaps more. They would at least be a cheap stopgap for petrol/methane engines, but would be ugly and need replensishing every 2 weeks. Cheap is a dirty word where business innovation is concerned.

I'm working on a job that involves changing diesel power to gas power. At the moment it is based on an economic argument, but with the flexibilty to run on green gas too. However the practical problems are that the gas produced from bio-digestion is quite dirty, and it takes a lot of technology to clean it up to the point where it is of any use to either domestic gas consumption or internal combustion engines. Currently it is much easier (and therefore economic) to use this gas to generate electricity through a gas turbine. This is what happends to great chunks of London waste at the massive Calvert facility in Buckinghamshire.

I would love to see green gas enter the gas supply system, but this would take more than a cheap ugly project, but more of a large coordinated effort across industries.

Not convinced there is anything that can capture the CO2 from an engine from a reasonable size that would allow it to be fitted to a highways vehicle or train. Then we have the big question as to what to do with that CO2. I think that carbon capture is part of the answer, but only a small part of it, and will continue to do so until the twin problems of capturing and storing are solved.

Sailing is a good thing - but inland waterways can work for freight if we revamp and upgrade the canal network. Minimal energy required once done and the work involved is not impractical if the will is there. The Victorians did it and there are still various ship canals operating over vast distances worldwide. Railways also make sense. A lighter weight container system could do for both - less development cost than electric vehicle infastructure I'd bet, but needs strategic planning rather than business enterprise.

I too would like to see the canal network brought back into use. But the restriction here is time and costs. Lightweight containers sounds like a blind alley there. The containers are designed to be robust and cheap, so lighter containers are likely to require more frequent replacement or repair, and I guess that the major weight is in the contents, not the structure.

There seem to be a few straw men in your argument. Business enterprise will find a more favourable solution whether it is either cheap and dirty or big and strategic. Countrywide strategic planning needs government support, and here there is a balance between vested interests from lobbying organisations, economic effects of unilateral actions (e.g. carbon tax on high-energy industries such as steel) and the (I believe) genuine desire of those in power to reduce the carbon output of this country.

 

[presta]

Electric car owners drive more:

"Compared to non-EV users, the EV users in the sample used the car for a larger percentage of their total travel"

 

[MrGrumpy]

Yep I get that, it’s cheap currently ! The world doesn’t need more new cars!

 

[MrGrumpy]

I was also thinking about emergency vehicles and electrification. It seems some Police forces are trialing Tesla Model 3s currently. Noted hydrogen powered cars also on trial down in London.

Stand down Tesla fanboys no need to all jump in at once

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/355282/tesla-model-3-gains-favour-police

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Electric car owners drive more:

"Compared to non-EV users, the EV users in the sample used the car for a larger percentage of their total travel"

That doesn't bode well for congestion.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Cars are great imo. Having come from an era when there were no cars in our 60's street it was very restricting.

Cars were so liberating socially and opened up a world of possibilities re careers.

I'm ok with EV but I think we have got it wrong.

We don't need Teslas with <3 second 0-62mph times, hoofing great EV Range Rovers and insane electric Porshes that could pull the side of a house off.

Most people need 1 or 2 seaters with some luggage space and maybe occasional access to a larger vehicle.

Much smaller, adequate performance EV vehicles surely must be the way forward.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Cars are great imo. Having come from an era when there were no cars in our 60's street it was very restricting.

Cars were so liberating socially and opened up a world of possibilities re careers.

I'm ok with EV but I think we have got it wrong.

We don't need Teslas with <3 second 0-62mph times, hoofing great EV Range Rovers and insane electric Porshes that could pull the side of a house off.

Most people need 1 or 2 seaters with some luggage space and maybe occasional access to a larger vehicle.

Much smaller, adequate performance EV vehicles surely must be the way forward.

I would argue that an integrated public transport system that operated on more convenient routes at appropriate times would be a better way forward for the long term than changing how we rely on private transport.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I would argue that an integrated public transport system that operated on more convenient routes at appropriate times would be a better way forward for the long term than changing how we rely on private transport.

Too restrictive for me and real pie in the sky in the sticks. Can't imagine any such system that would work economically and conveniently for my travels in and around Cumbria ie into the wilds.

I can see the benefits in denser urban spaces though.

We have a small car these days (not EV) and it suits our sub 2500 miles pa lifestyle.

On the other hand I am wondering whether a little EV Quad bike (do they exist?) would be handy to have for my forays into the mountains.

I favour a more pragmatic horses for courses approach tbh.

 

[fossyant]

I would argue that an integrated public transport system that operated on more convenient routes at appropriate times would be a better way forward for the long term than changing how we rely on private transport.

Exactly, better public transport and less car traffic. And don't suggest people use their bikes !

 

[BrumJim]

Electric car owners drive more:

"Compared to non-EV users, the EV users in the sample used the car for a larger percentage of their total travel"

I can believe that. My wife has said to me "take the car, it's electric" several times. Each time I've opted to walk or ride, because it is not really solving the problem.

 

[BrumJim]

Cars are great imo. Having come from an era when there were no cars in our 60's street it was very restricting.

Cars were so liberating socially and opened up a world of possibilities re careers.

I'm ok with EV but I think we have got it wrong.

We don't need Teslas with <3 second 0-62mph times, hoofing great EV Range Rovers and insane electric Porshes that could pull the side of a house off.

Most people need 1 or 2 seaters with some luggage space and maybe occasional access to a larger vehicle.

Much smaller, adequate performance EV vehicles surely must be the way forward.

I agree. Problem is the halo effect. It is more desireable to buy an electric car related to the Tesla, rather than an up-graded Twizzy, even if they were of exactly the same spec.

 

[icowden]

Too restrictive for me and real pie in the sky in the sticks. Can't imagine any such system that would work economically and conveniently for my travels in and around Cumbria ie into the wilds.

Kendal to Carlisle is 45 miles. I can't imagine any return journey in Cumbria is going to be much over 100 miles and there are loads of public charging points. So why is your use case exceptional?