Are we being forced to go electric?

[cougie uk]

It's about the same in France I think. We are a bit bigger ? Germany in the lead in Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-as-europe-second-largest-electric-car-market

 

[MrGrumpy]

Norway has bucket loads of money from selling oil to other countries and then subsidising EVs for its tiny 4m population. Not really comparable to the U.K.

What’s the French or Italian stance on EVs for example of countries with a comparable population to here?

Well my holiday to said countries last month would suggest they run their cars into the ground . Jokes aside , never saw many charging points in the towns/cities I visited. Did see the odd EV and some buses were EV as well .

 

[icowden]

It's about the same in France I think. We are a bit bigger ? Germany in the lead in Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-as-europe-second-largest-electric-car-market

Germany offers a 9000 euro incentive for BEVs. France a 7000 euro incentive. .
Norway does not levy VAT on BEVs giving a 25% discount on all vehicles (so for a £45,000 ID4 that would be about £12,000 off the price). In the meantime they levy an extra 25% on ICE vehicles. They have a ban on new ICE cars from 2025.

Boris is paving the way by offering £1500 if your BEV costs less than £32k. Whoop!

 

[icowden]

Well my holiday to said countries last month would suggest they run their cars into the ground . Jokes aside , never saw many charging points in the towns/cities I visited. Did see the odd EV and some buses were EV as well .

Norway’s excellent charge point network has also aided EV uptake – easing range anxiety and enabling drivers to visit most points of interest in the country without concern. Given the mountainous and often isolated terrain, this is particularly important. To support a network of more than 480,000 EVs there are now almost 17,000 charging stations across Norway, including more than 3,000 fast chargers. And you wont need to travel more than 30 miles to find your nearest rapid charge point.

France is getting there with about 37000 charge points although most are normal slow chargers. They have work to do.
Germany is aiming for a million charging points by 2030, and had 45,000 in 2020.

The UK has 32,000 devices with 53,000 connectors across 20,000 locations.

That said, companies like BP can smell the change in the wind and are investing a lot of money in EV infrastructure - they have announced a 1 billion pound investment in EV charging in anticipation of the reduction in demand for petrol and diesel.

 

[simongt]

Passat sized?!

I had a Passat estate back in the late 80's Lovely car and looked stylishly functional. Then the bling monsters took over the VW design dept. - !

 

[wiggydiggy]

In this report* it states that there are three critical tipping points for consumer EV mass adoption in the UK (there are different numbers and different priorities for fleet managers):

• Price below ~£23,700
• Range above 455 km/283 miles
• Charge time of 30 minutes

* a commercially-sponsored report - take it as you find it

£23k is 10x what I've paid for each one of my cars, I accept next time I change there is a good reason to buy electric but if that's out of my or anyones affordability what then? (Not a personal question👍)

I'd really like an electric cat instead of my petrol but they're completely priced out of my range.

Edit: I miss spelled and am not changing it🐈‍⬛

 

[icowden]

£23k is 10x what I've paid for each one of my cars, I accept next time I change there is a good reason to buy electric but if that's out of my or anyones affordability what then? (Not a personal question👍)

The "what then" is to wait for one of more of the following:

• The Government to provide better incentives
• EV tech to become cheaper to create as adoption becomes more widespread
• EV second hand car market grows such that cars depreciate much more

Personally we chose to buy a new Grand Scenic when we had kids, for a small deposit and £290 per month over about 5 years (15k total plus interest). Many people now don't buy the car at all but effectively "hire" it using PCP or lease. The bigger EVs will work out expensive on PCP, but the smaller ones aren't *that* pricey. For 6 grand down you could buy a top of the range Nissan Leaf for about £350 a month, which isn't *too* bad for many middle class families.

Obviously work needs to be done. If we killed the VAT like Norway, the prices would be able to really shift and EV take up would rocket.

 

[MrGrumpy]

The "what then" is to wait for one of more of the following:

• The Government to provide better incentives
• EV tech to become cheaper to create as adoption becomes more widespread
• EV second hand car market grows such that cars depreciate much more

Personally we chose to buy a new Grand Scenic when we had kids, for a small deposit and £290 per month over about 5 years (15k total plus interest). Many people now don't buy the car at all but effectively "hire" it using PCP or lease. The bigger EVs will work out expensive on PCP, but the smaller ones aren't *that* pricey. For 6 grand down you could buy a top of the range Nissan Leaf for about £350 a month, which isn't *too* bad for many middle class families.

Obviously work needs to be done. If we killed the VAT like Norway, the prices would be able to really shift and EV take up would rocket.

It’s a no brainer killing VAT but the money would have to come from somewhere else ? Norway uses their oil income that WE pay for . Things will move we know that , just feel with the current world climate it’s slowed down a bit .

 

[icowden]

It’s a no brainer killing VAT but the money would have to come from somewhere else ? Norway uses their oil income that WE pay for .

Actually I think the initial offset for the VAT was to apply a corresponding tax on ICE cars. I agree about the Oil though.

 

[gzoom]

never saw many charging points in the towns/cities I visited.

We are in France right now with 2 EVs, loads of 22KW chargers pretty much in very small village car park. Both EV right now are at 90%+ charge status, its actually easier to own/charge an EV in France than the UK.

We are driving through Holland, Germany for a final destination of Norway in 6 weeks again, I suspect we will find the same. UK lags far behind Europe in EV infrastructure.

 

[MrGrumpy]

We are in France right now with 2 EVs, loads of 22KW chargers pretty much in very small village car park. Both EV right now are at 90%+ charge status, its actually easier to own/charge an EV in France than the UK.

well I think you have just reinforced the point made in here numerous times. As to why EV owning is lagging in the UK.

 

[gzoom]

As to why EV owning is lagging in the UK.

I've had an EV for 7 years in the UK with no issues. Came across an twin RHD Model X when in a French Supermarket today.

Clearly the majority of EV owners have little issue with range anxiety .

 

[cougie uk]

All depends on your usage. As I've said 359 days out of 365 I have no need to charge away from home.

 

[CXRAndy]

All depends on your usage. As I've said 359 days out of 365 I have no need to charge away from home.

This true for me too. Naysayers always go one about travelling distance whilst the vast majority rarely do it more than a couple of times a year.

 

[icowden]

This true for me too. Naysayers always go one about travelling distance whilst the vast majority rarely do it more than a couple of times a year.

One of my checks when I was considering going electric was about distance and whether it was important. I worked out that in a given year:

• Multiple trips to the new forest to visit the in-laws - 83 miles.
• A couple of trips to Worcester to see my mum - 120 miles
• Possibly a trip to the Isle of Wight - 78 miles.

Other than that all trips probably less than 10 miles(School runs, shopping etc).

Any long driving trip is going to be an exception, not the rule. It's possible that one year we might drive to France and go skiing, travelling the best part of 700 miles. It's unlikely though. The longest journey we have ever done was to the Lake district, 311 miles. But we stayed at my mum's on the way up and at Alton Towers on the way back. The Towers *still* doesn't have any chargers, so we would probably have had to do at least one rapid charge on the motorway. BUt again it's an exception and just needs a little planning.

The ID4 is going to have plenty of range for me. I can trickle some charge at the in-laws from a 240v plug, or drive 15 minutes up to Lymington for a rapid charge. At my mum's there's plenty of charging points in Worcester (probably not there long enough to warrant a trickle charge).

The Isle of Wight is probably the trickiest as not many charging points and a lot of the ones that are there don't work!