Are we being forced to go electric?

[Time Waster]

I just think safe energy conversion without electricity storage will be better than battery storage systems like EVs.

 

[Alex321]

I don't think anyone serious thinks EV s are the solution just like hybrids weren't. They're perhaps less obviously a stage on the journey to some than hybrids but they're just as much a step in the journey to something better that truly works for society and the environment.

My view is how long before the next step in that journey comes? I think it might be possible to skip EVs as they are now and get the next tech along if it comes in early enough.

What is your view on what that next step might be?

We aren't skipping the EV step unless whatever comes next is ready for mass usage within the next 10 years, and that is unlikely unless we already have a good idea what it will be.

 

[icowden]

I stand to be corrected, but I doubt very much the EVs are significantly more efficient in and of themselves.

The most fuel efficient combustion engines currently on the market are 40% efficient. So only 40% of what you put in can be converted to power to drive the car forward. The remaining 60% is heat and friction - that's why car engines are hot.

In an EV 80% of the energy put in is converted to power. Minimal heat and friction. Obviously, detractors point out that if your electricity supply is from coal fired power stations then the "inefficiency" is just moved from the car to the electricity producer. If however you live somewhere like Norway that has almost 100% green energy, then you are way more efficient.

In the UK we are about 50% renewable. We need to do more and get rid of monsters like Drax that just pretend to be green. But if we do generate more power from solar, wind and hydro, things will only get better.

 

[icowden]

You're still wrong about the issue with ozone, and the rest of your post misses quite a bit, which means your summary doesn't altogether hold up either, especially with the reduction in emission reduction research due to the pending ban on production and sale.

Thanks for the detailed response rebutting what I have posted and citing studies an articles to support your argument.
You'll have to excuse me if at the moment I don't immediately take your side of the discussion as you don't seem to have one.

 

[CXRAndy]

How much did you spend on your EV to get you into this position?

I will use our Nissan Leaf as the example, being an average price EV. We paid £26k for it. The mileage covered and saving from cheap overnight electric compared to an equivalent petrol car, equated to buying the Leaf new for £9k.

Now savings are still to be had, but less so due to electric price increases. However fossil fuel prices are at a all time high.

Get a leased EV, the money saved in fuel will offset the payments to near or equal petrol car.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Get a leased EV,.

That has to be the worst advice given in over 100 pages, anybody who rents a car on PCP needs to examine their motives, why you would encourage anyone to throw money at an asset, only not to have any asset at the end of the term.

If EV works for yourself then that's good, it won't work for me purely & simply on a financial footing, I do not have the £30K to buy one

 

[CXRAndy]

This is on the presumption you were going to be changing your vehicle in the near future. Going from ICE to EV.

The best option for the World is we all do away with vehicular transport and go and live in wattle and daub huts

 

[icowden]

That has to be the worst advice given in over 100 pages, anybody who rents a car on PCP needs to examine their motives, why you would encourage anyone to throw money at an asset, only not to have any asset at the end of the term.

Simple. It's the motoring equivalent of renting vs buying. It's nice to be in the position to buy, but rental carries a lot of benefits too.

 

[cougie uk]

That has to be the worst advice given in over 100 pages, anybody who rents a car on PCP needs to examine their motives, why you would encourage anyone to throw money at an asset, only not to have any asset at the end of the term.

If EV works for yourself then that's good, it won't work for me purely & simply on a financial footing, I do not have the £30K to buy one

Mine was 17k. Two years old. Saving at least £100 a month on fuel. Zero tax. Cheap services.

 

[cougie uk]

My view is how long before the next step in that journey comes? I think it might be possible to skip EVs as they are now and get the next tech along if it comes in early enough.

So to summarize your strategy - do nothing. Keep burning fossil fuels and increase the rate of climate change but cross your fingers and hope for some pixie dust idea to sort things out ?

Interesting.

 

[CXRAndy]

Those doing nothing or waiting for something different to an EV are going to be in for a big surprise.

Surprise will be massive increase in using their ICE, emissions zones charging, excise duty loaded onto those delaying the adoption of EVs

Those waiting for something like hydrogen will be waiting 20-50 years.

EV is now the flavour of manufacturing for the foreseeable future.

 

[Alex321]

That has to be the worst advice given in over 100 pages, anybody who rents a car on PCP needs to examine their motives, why you would encourage anyone to throw money at an asset, only not to have any asset at the end of the term.

It is just rental as opposed to purchase.

Some people actually prefer rental both for housing and for transport. Others don't, for either.

If EV works for yourself then that's good, it won't work for me purely & simply on a financial footing, I do not have the £30K to buy one

Neither do I (though in theory I could just about). But when I'm next changing one of our cars (probably 2-3 years time), I fully expect to be able to get a decent 2nd hand one for more like £10K. And with a good big solar system, it will be cheap to run.

 

[midlife]

I will use our Nissan Leaf as the example, being an average price EV. We paid £26k for it. The mileage covered and saving from cheap overnight electric compared to an equivalent petrol car, equated to buying the Leaf new for £9k.

Now savings are still to be had, but less so due to electric price increases. However fossil fuel prices are at a all time high.

Get a leased EV, the money saved in fuel will offset the payments to near or equal petrol car.

Got my Ford Ka a year ago and all up costs to buy and run for a year is about £4,400.

This year will just be running costs as I own it outright.

Leasing a EV Zoe is about £350 a month so after 2 years I am maybe £2500 richer that the Zoe owner.

The previous owner of the house had an EV and I have a charger on the drive and looked at getting an EV and would like one but at the moment I can't get owning an EV a lot cheaper than running my Ka.

 

[FishFright]

That has to be the worst advice given in over 100 pages, anybody who rents a car on PCP needs to examine their motives, why you would encourage anyone to throw money at an asset, only not to have any asset at the end of the term.

If EV works for yourself then that's good, it won't work for me purely & simply on a financial footing, I do not have the £30K to buy one

A well priced PCP is often not too far off the depreciation over the 3 years of the lease, especial if you tried to sell it privately.

 

[Time Waster]

@icowdeni I stand corrected. However you have got your data a bit out. 80% is for conversion of electrical power into useful work. It's about 60% overall efficiency of EVs, still still higher than ICE.

One thing I will point out is the sources of information on such matters out there. There's so much propaganda from all sides. I googled things and depending on what I typed I got various companies making money from EV industry making out that EVs are the greatest, exaggerating data like efficiency (using the wrong data like I mentioned above) then using the worst possible data on ICE. If you get companies benefiting from ICE sector arguing with data skewed the other way.

I think you need to consider the lowest efficiency for both not the highest. Choose the highest I think you're looking at the propaganda figures.

My big issue with EVs , the reason why I'm hanging off in the hope something else better comes along, is the cost and batteries. Batteries are not great things to be at the centre of your energy supply IMHO. They're a weakness. I think hydrogen cells are supposed to be a better longterm option but it's not there yet. Until it is EVs are the only option. They do need to drop in price and there needs to be a trust built in how the industry deals with batteries and its raw materials.