Armstrong charged and banned

[thom]

iirc it hasn't been illegal to commit suicide in England & Wales since the early 60's. Thousands of people damage their health every year through drugs, the most popular of which would appear to be alcohol, consumption of which is perfectly legal. So....

What is the moral argument for one standard (of liberty) in the street and another on the 'playing field'?

Perhaps the conclusion should be that alcohol be prohibited then...
Is that more or less ridiculous than sanctioning unfettered drug taking in sport ?

I think this particular topic may deserve it's own thread.

 

[Buddfox]

So has anyone read the extracts of Hamilton's book in the Times today? I've not seen it and don't subscribe, but judging by the news reports this morning it's pretty damning. Not that that's much of a surprise!

 

[lukesdad]

That's me got my US-version on Tyler's book ordered.

You ve just got to learn to read now then !

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Is that more or less ridiculous than sanctioning unfettered drug taking in sport ?

The fetters don't work. If you allow unfettered consumption of certain harmful drugs in the street why not on the playing field?

The rose tinted view of the amateur endeavours of sportspeople.

Is why.

"C'mon yew Cortinthian Casuals!"

 

[Crackle]

I think this particular topic may deserve it's own thread.

Yeah, can we keep this to it's own thread please.

 

[MichaelM]

Without wanting to labour the point as it is drifting a bit off topic, but my uncertainty over the performance impact is one of the things I find most frustrating about the entire saga, LA or others. When I first got into cycling, my hero was Richard Virenque. There was a time when I admired Riis, Armstrong and Pantani. But now, not only am I frustrated to know that they were all cheats, I have no real idea how to judge their performances. Boris Bajic has mentioned Pantani a number of times. I was in the Alps a few weeks back toiling up to Alpe d'Huez and Les Deux Alpes and on returning, my friend showed me the videos of him ascending both in 'record' times. I watched it for about 30 seconds and realised I was totally turned off by the whole thing. All I could think was "You're cheating, I've no idea how good you really were". And that's deeply disappointing - and for me the reason why I just wipe the whole period from the memory bank. Would Virenque have ever been KoM if he hadn't doped? Who knows? I hope in ten years when I show friends the clips of the stage yesterday in La Vuelta (for example), it's because it's still regarded as genuine racing, and not a bunch of cheats out to fool us all.

I watch it with a completely different attitude. My earliest recollection of anyone doping was Theunise back in the 80s. Since then I've watched cycling thinking that they (leaders/big names) are probably on something.

Memorable days nonetheless:

Riis mountaintop finish (I think the stage was cut short due to weather and the cut off rule was axed due to numbers outside the cutoff).

Landis' big day out - he had to be on something after the previous day. Still impressive viewing.

Rasmussun vs Contador on some mighty climb - I thought they were both on something. Rasmussen came out on top (took yellow?) but was consequently thrown out by his team.

The past two years don't seem to have had much in terms of unbelievably impressive performances. I'd like to think that Evans and Wiggins did it clean (Evans just seems to struggle so much!), but I wouldn't bet my house on it.

 

[thom]

Tyler Hamilton, ABC live now : http://livetvcafe.net/video/8XBK9SMHGS9U/NBC
edit : over now ! Tyler was looking tanned and relaxed ;-)
2nd edit : here you go

 

[Flying_Monkey]

With you on that one. Legalising and making drugs available on a controlled price basis via Government could remove at a stroke the financial incentive for the criminal cartels to profit out of getting people hooked.

However, the question of legalizing recreational drugs in wider society is a very different one from the question of performance-enhancing drugs in competitive sports.

 

[Smokin Joe]

However, the question of legalizing recreational drugs in wider society is a very different one from the question of performance-enhancing drugs in competitive sports.

Quite right.

You have a choice whether to take recreational drugs, if you're unable compete in your sport without them it's a different matter.

 

[007fair]

Tyler Hamilton, ABC live now : http://livetvcafe.net/video/8XBK9SMHGS9U/NBC
edit : over now ! Tyler was looking tanned and relaxed ;-)
2nd edit : here you go

It stopped before I could see Pippa Middleton !!

If that was the type of witness / evidence Lance would have to have faced in court I don't blame him for feeling tired. And I'm irritated by the fact that they always bring up his cancer awareness stuff. If Lance can decompartmentalise the two sides of his character so should the rest of us.

 

[Chuffy]

And I'm irritated by the fact that they always bring up his cancer awareness stuff. If Lance can decompartmentalise the two sides of his character so should the rest of us.

Comedy gold!

 

[thom]

Donald Trump has some advice

 

[Red Light]

Tyler Hamilton, ABC live now : http://livetvcafe.net/video/8XBK9SMHGS9U/NBC
edit : over now ! Tyler was looking tanned and relaxed ;-)
2nd edit : here you go

Ambiguous response:

Interviewer reading out statement from LA: "Its not about setting the record straight or righting a wrong; it is greedy, opportunistic and self serving....". How do you respond?
TH: Its the truth, its the truth.

 

[Red Light]

So has anyone read the extracts of Hamilton's book in the Times today? I've not seen it and don't subscribe, but judging by the news reports this morning it's pretty damning. Not that that's much of a surprise!

I read them and they were not what I had expected. Its mostly about Hamilton and what he did with only oblique references to Armstrong and without the killer blows that some were predicting (at least not in the abstracts The Times has chosen. The Times bigs up elsewhere in its associated story the comment attributed to Armstrong by associating it with doping:

​

Hamilton depicts a man “haunted” by the thought rivals might be one step ahead, talking of “Lance’s Golden Rule: whatever you do, those other f***ers are doing more”, which he claims made Armstrong train harder and also chase the most effective doping with Michele Ferrari, his trusted doctor. ​

But in the abstract from Hamilton in context its:

He was incapable of being passive, because he was haunted by what others might be doing. This was the same force that drove him to test equipment in the wind tunnel, to be finicky about diet, to be ruthless about training. ​

​

It’s funny, the world always saw it as a drive that came from within Lance, but from my point of view, it came from the outside; his fear that someone else was going to outthink and outwork and outstrategise him. I came to think of it as Lance’s Golden Rule: Whatever you do, those other f***ers are doing more.​

​

It sounds very much like Lance's Golden Rule was not a rule made up by Lance but one made up by Hamilton about Lance.

 

[Noodley]

Red Light, have you ever given even the slightest bit of attention to Pro Racing before this thread started? Cos if you have, you have missed a shitload of stuff!