BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict

[PaulSB]

You see, I think you've missed the problem. This whole blame the cyclist thing will never be fixed by improving cyclist behaviour, it'll be fixed by changing the culture prevalent amongst drivers, the very worst parts of car culture. I'm sorry to say this, but you seem to be a part of that. Cyclists in the Netherlands aren't that different to us, and yet drivers don't treat them as badly there.

I agree with the need to change driving culture. All I've tried to say, and it's a view I've long held and practised, is as cyclists we should try to always be on our best behaviour as this presents cyclists in a positive manner to other road users.

I'm not defending bad drivers at all and must say I object to the assertion I'm part of the problem, which you've made before. I simply try to cycle well and treat other road users with respect. How is that a problem? I do the same when driving my car.

Secondly, as to the point of Gaz's video, you should know by now that Gaz almost never goes through a red light. In this instance (and I think he'd agree that it's extremely rare), there is a situation justifying running the red light.

I haven't criticised his RLJing mainly I pointed out it was an on the day decision and I might or might not have done the same. I think there are aspects of the video which suggest Gaz could have ridden differently but on the basic facts, lights changing, truck on backside I'd probably have done the same.

message isn't anti-driver at all, it's anti-bad-road-user. Again, you should know this if you've seen Silly Cyclists. The reality of the UK's roads, though, mean that bad drivers are the thing most likely to risk the lives of other people and Gaz's in particular.

I don't know what Silly Cyclists is but will find out. The point I try to make is I think aspects of that video give out a very mixed message. If camera users want to publish these videos the message must be clear - in this one it is open to interpretation. Unfortunately this applies to some footage posted by Gaz AND other camera users - the driver in some examples is not initially to blame but by the end is being held responsible.

This is not to defend the bad driving, the real problem is established opinion on either side only see what supports their own arguement.

I'm looking forward to tonight's programme but I suspect it will be the usual junk. Road rage between driver and rider which could easily be replaced by driver to driver road rage. I won't be surprised if it turns out to be similar to Police Camera Action and other such nonsense.

I also wonder if the programme will prove London centric? I expect this primarily because I, and many cyclists I know, simply don't experience much of the poor road use expressed on here by commuters.

 

[PaulSB]

Sad to say, but Melanie Philips is right about a significant proportion of cyclists in London - as a pedestrian I am faced almost every time I walk out by hazards on the pavement or on crossings from law breaking cyclists.I often have to step aside or stop to avoid being hit.

I have just spent a few days in Lille and, a few months ago, a few days in Bruges. In both cities I came across cyclists on pavements and in pedestrian areas and on crossings, but always the cyclist was cycling with care and ceding priority to the pedestrian. I have had similar experiences in other European cities.

Maybe the issue is not cyclists per se but that a significant proportion of we Brits are simply antisocial twots?

I'd also observe that virtually all the bikes i saw were sit up and beg potterers and contrast that with the "broke my PB Waterloo to the city" culture among many London commuting cyclists

On my last two visits to London I've also been struck by the amount of poor cycle behaviour I observed. This was by a whole range of cyclists from the potterers to the the guy going hell for leather up The Mall.

I agree though it may be more to do with general attitude rather than being specific to cycling.

 

[PaulSB]

On my last two visits to London I've also been struck by the amount of poor cycle behaviour I observed. This was by a whole range of cyclists from the potterers to the the guy going hell for leather up The Mall.

I agree though it may be more to do with general attitude rather than being specific to cycling.

 

[BentMikey]

I feel that you're part of the problem because you continue to TRL549, to focus on cyclists, instead of rejecting that bigotry, accepting that we're all the same humans and that car drivers are just as bad, but thousands of times more dangerous. Stop the rubbishing of cyclists, and instead look at the real causes of death and injury on our roads and try to change that.

 

[PK99]

You won't know what is coming, so no chance to write a script. My technique is to listen clearly to the question, take a few seconds to think about my rough answer, and then fill in the middle sections.
I'm pretty articulate and certain things just roll off my tongue.

The thing with interviews, is they really don't care how long you take. As in general you repeat the answer in the question ( in a sensible way). e.g. "what is your favourite fruit?" "my favourite fruit is the kiwi"

Media training: Decide in advance what 3 points you want to make and make them irrespective of the questions asked

 

[PaulSB]

I feel that you're part of the problem because you continue to TRL549, to focus on cyclists, instead of rejecting that bigotry, accepting that we're all the same humans and that car drivers are just as bad, but thousands of times more dangerous. Stop the rubbishing of cyclists, and instead look at the real causes of death and injury on our roads and try to change that.

Hang on a minute. I have said I think we all have a responsibility to behave, i.e. cycle, to the best of our ability, follow the rules of the road, and demonstrate to other road users, i.e. motorists, cyclists can and do behave well on the public highway. I feel this sends a positive message to drivers. In a similar vein for example if I know a driver has sat patiently behind me waiting for a safe opportunity to pass he / she gets a friendly wave or thumbs up as I'm passed. I view this as positive interaction with other road users and shows I appreciate the respect shown to me. Hopefully it encourages the driver to develop and continue the understanding of our needs.

November last year I spent a weekend in London. On a beautiful Sunday morning I stood outside the Holiday Inn, watching the world go by while I waited for my wife and family. You can see a blue bridge and the road on the right before it is Hopton Street. I was there for perhaps 15 minutes and there was steady flow of cyclists down Hopton Street towards Southwark Road wanting to turn right. The majority actually mounted the pavement before reaching the T junction, cycled on the pavement to a point under the bridge beyond the Boris bikes, before cycling off the pavement and turning right to reach the desired lane. The riders were on a range of bikes and dressed in many styles, some were clearly pretty serious cyclists.

This in my view is poor cycling. If you can defend it please do but I feel it is the type of behaviour which gives drivers reason to criticise us all. I am not rubbishing cyclists and never will, that doesn't mean one should ignore poor riding habits and styles. It seems to me from the reaction you give your view is rather one sided, myself I can see the majority of drivers treat us with respect, the majority of cyclists behave well and there are those on both sides who do a diservice to everyone. Both sides need educating in an effort to eliminate poor road useage.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&sugexp=les;&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=serp&pq=holiday inn&cp=24&gs_id=1g&xhr=t&rlz=1C1ARAB_enGB474GB484&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=39468505&biw=1337&bih=931&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=holiday inn southwark street&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=holiday inn southwark street&cid=0,0,17322539451692271907&sa=X&ei=1xW_UKbkMNCXhQfuqYHYDg&sqi=2&ved=0CLUBEPwSMAM

I tried to post it in street view for you but failed. Sorry I'm rubbish with that sort of thing

 

[mcshroom]

BikeBiz believe that if the program is as previewed then it breaks the BBC's own guidelines: -

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/bb...-cycling-footage-as-standard-behaviour/014036

Also Gaz and Magnatom are now getting referenced in the (cycling) press

 

[BentMikey]

...and you're still TRL549, Paul.

Improving cyclist behaviour will make not one jot of difference to the way motorists act towards cyclists. We are an out-tribe, a minority that gets bigoted abuse and is blamed collectively for the sins of a few. Bad cyclist - all cyclists are bad. Bad motorist - only that driver is bad. Worse still, cyclists aren't the ones causing the slaughter on the UK's roads. Until you start looking at the real problem, the slaughter caused by drivers and the bigotry some express towards cyclists, you are part of the problem.

 

[400bhp]

BikeBiz believe that if the program is as previewed then it breaks the BBC's own guidelines: -

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/bb...-cycling-footage-as-standard-behaviour/014036

Also Gaz and Magnatom are now getting referenced in the (cycling) press

Magnatom and CycleGaz have not seen the programme yet but have been shocked at the trailers, and said the angle of the documentary has changed radically from when they were first approached.

Has Gaz been misquoted?

Bunch of cnuts in that "stunt" film nevertheless.

 

[400bhp]

I think it would have, but it would appear the BBC have cocked it right up regarding what they are showing and trying to potray cyclists to be. Why they are showing the 2006 Alleycat FFS? The general concensus is that cyclists are not like that at all. It's like showing footage of the two BMW's racing each other down the M1 Monday night and trying to potray that this is what car drivers are like. RIP the two people killed.

Let's wait to see it. It may have been edited by tonight/over egged anyway.

 

[400bhp]

You haven't seen it yet!!!

 

[gaz]

Has Gaz been misquoted?

Bunch of cnuts in that "stunt" film nevertheless.

No, i've been talking to Carlton about it.

 

[PaulSB]

...and you're still TRL549, Paul.

Improving cyclist behaviour will make not one jot of difference to the way motorists act towards cyclists. We are an out-tribe, a minority that gets bigoted abuse and is blamed collectively for the sins of a few. Bad cyclist - all cyclists are bad. Bad motorist - only that driver is bad. Worse still, cyclists aren't the ones causing the slaughter on the UK's roads. Until you start looking at the real problem, the slaughter caused by drivers and the bigotry some express towards cyclists, you are part of the problem.

Well I can't agree with you that I am part of the problem. You seem to take pleasure in misinterpreting my words to allow you to reach this conclusion. To suggest a fellow cyclist who takes great pleasure in riding and attempts to behave in a proper manner is part of the overall issue makes it difficult to give your views much credence. To be taken seriously one needs to be able to view the whole issue and not just the part which fits one's own agenda.

 

[davefb]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleycat_races

the preview copy supposedly makes no distinction between that footage and something gaz or mikey record as part of their normal riding..

but the bbc/production company says "We showed the contributors the footage in the context of it being footage of a bicycle courier road race that took place, which was shot by Lucas Brunelle, and uploaded to YouTube. The footage has since been released commercially, but the fact remains that it depicts real behaviour which actually took place on London’s busy streets.""


disingenuous as best.. maybe the footage from people like gaz wasn't exiting enough?

 

[Arjimlad]

CTC's take on it is here, and interesting.. look forward to seeing it later ! http://www.ctc.org.uk/blog/roger-geffen/war-on-britain’s-roads-myth-or-reality