Being yelled at and perceptions of cyclists....

[Bman]

I think I may have said this before on this forum:

I hardly get any abuse, especially in contrast to my colleague. He is a jogger, and wears lycra. Where as I cycle in relatively normal clothes (jeans etc).

The strangest story he told was when he was running along the pavement, gets passed by a small car full of young lads, who pull in ahead of him. As he passes, one of them leans out and takes a picture (with a proper camera, not just a phone).

I can also vouch for this as I sometimes join him on his runs, Although Im riding slower than I normally would, nothing else is different. We get all kinds of leers, cheers and abuse!

 

[Bromptonaut]

Reading these posts I do sometimes wonder if London in general is less deranged than most of the rest of the country. As a fat, not bald, oldish bloke on a tiny wheeled bike with a silly big bag on the front, I cannot recall any stupid comments in four years of Bromptoneering around West London / West End.

I suppose it just could be that the sheer numbers of Bromptons have overwhelmed the local morons.

I think there's something in that. As a bloke who's neither fat nor bold (or bald - edit!) but over 50 I ride a B daily in London without comment.

Ride it round Northampton and it's a different story..........

 

[slowmotion]

I'm a 55 year old bloke who got back on two wheels about six months ago, and pootles around Central London. Yes, I am tempting Fate, but I have been really impressed by the courtesy shown to me as a cyclist by the vast majority of London motorists of all forms and descriptions. I do not think it is my age. I wear the usual stuff and ,from the back, I might be mistaken for a younger person on a hybrid. On my first commute to work, just after getting the bike, a WVM stopped alongside, as I wheezed and gasped on a traffic island and said "Are you OK mate?", with genuine concern in his voice. The usual stereotypes do not apply round here.

I have been honked at on narrow streets a few times by motorists who seem to think I could let them overtake by moving over slightly. It happens when riding down lines of parked cars, and I just refuse to go into the car door zone. My guess is that some drivers have no idea of the risk of moving over under those circumstances, and I can appreciate their frustration. All in all, London drivers are OK, but perhaps I have been lucky, or am too inexperienced to form a valid opinion.

BTW, how close do you people ride to lines of parked cars?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

The strangest story he told was when he was running along the pavement, gets passed by a small car full of young lads, who pull in ahead of him. As he passes, one of them leans out and takes a picture (with a proper camera, not just a phone).

Speaking as quite an enthusiastic amateur photographer, I can understand this. I probably wouldn't have the nerve to lean out of a car and photograph someone in this way, but I can see that there's the potential for a good action shot of someone running.

 

[jimboalee]

I rode the 'new' strategy last night.

I usually ride up Castle Hill through Warwick at about 8mph on the yellow lines keeping out of the way. The motorists overtake at not more than 5 mph faster because the lane is 10ft wide.

The 'new' strategy was to "take the road", so I rode up the inside lane of the two in Primary, still at 8 mph cus that's how fast I climb that hill.

At the top of the hill, the lane splits into two ( making a three lane width ) for a left filter. Over the brow, I head straight on so I move to primary anyway.

As the lanes split and I take the middle lane, a GIRL in a VW Polo overtakes me on the INSIDE and shouts "C*NT!" as she passes.

So much for taking 'Primary' on a 10ft lane up a hill. Back to the tried and trusted strategy this afternoon.

PS. What she shouted must be the quickest way of getting her thoughts known. She must have practiced it a lot.

 

[PBancroft]

I think the short answer is driving is stressful. Even when people don't realise it, I really think it is.

If they perceive you to be in their way, slowing them down, or find you at fault for something that someone else once did at some distant point in the past, they will vent their anger at you.

 

[jimboalee]

Hmmmm I'm wondering if at the moment it's 'gone back to work stress' - I've also noticed many, many more RLJing motorists than normal (whizzing through after it's gone red; in some cases three cars in a row). On my usual route I don't see this too often; but this week's been mad that way.

My abuse seems to be mostly from pedestrians (no, I'm not on the pavement with them!); or vehicles going the other way; so not sure it's about road positioning. I did get a stupidly close pass followed by yelling out the window before Christmas (my first like this); where I'd picked the middle of the lane as there was solid ice blocking the gutters. Bunch of teenagers in a 2 door corsa. Male. As to be expected, they then got stuck at the next set of traffic lights, and the next, and the next.....(with me whizzing up the inside of the queue of traffic...). There I first saw red, then decided to try explain that there was solid ice on the left; which is why I was further over than His Highness would have liked; but of course the occupants were too testosteroned out to have a discussion. Although, once they discovered I was female, they went for the 'can I have your number' bellow out the window rather than whatever junk came out the first time.

On a club run when riding in a group, the lead rider will drop a hand and waggle it around to signal a pothole, drain cover, ICE etc.

There is no reason a cyclist cannot do this for a following car to signal a danger in the road they must manouver around.

You can do this OR signal that you are changing your position on the road.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

In this case, I'd have been waggling a hand the entire ride home as every bloomin' gutter was blocked; never seen ice that bad before or since.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

BTW, how close do you people ride to lines of parked cars?

Far enough out that I think a door opening will just miss me without my swerving!

If cars want to come past and I'm fairly sure all cars are unoccupied (eg, I usually ride through a suburb where cars are parked in the cycle lane as the owners live in the houses alongside - you get to know which cars are normally parked there 'permanently') I keep the same distance but will pull slightly over to let the cars overtake before pulling back out.

It's not worth the risk; there are cases of deaths due to dooring recorded in the latest report into cycling deaths in London....

 

[sheddy]

I think many drivers just don't have the car control to vary their speed and position, they can only drive in a straight line at the speed of the car in front

 

[jimboalee]

So what's the conclusion?

CycleCraft is the 'Correct' way to ride a bike.

Ride in 'Primary' but move to Secondary when the kerb is clear.
"Be assertive",
Ride in a position where you can be clearly seen,
Etc, etc.

What we are saying is our experiences suggest motorists consider this cycling style to be arrogant, selfish and obstructive.


Then cyclists wonder why motorists shout at, curse and generally dislike cyclists.

Maybe we CAN'T have it both ways. Maybe we should yield sometimes.

Maybe Primary should be in the nearside tyre tracks and Secondary should be in the centre when obstructions are present.

 

[brokenbetty]

This morning, as most mornings, I had no problems at all. When necessary I rode primary in front of cars (including a few BMWs), white vans, taxis and lorries. Going through Shoreditch I was in primary in the middle of 3 lanes through 4 sets of traffic lights. No one beeped, shouted, gestured, forced past or drove too close behind me.

 

[brokenbetty]

So what's the conclusion?
CycleCraft is the 'Correct' way to ride a bike.

Ride in 'Primary' but move to Secondary when the kerb is clear.
"Be assertive",
Ride in a position where you can be clearly seen,
Etc, etc.

What we are saying is our experiences suggest motorists consider this cycling style to be arrogant, selfish and obstructive.

No, my experiences don't suggest this at all.

Maybe Primary should be in the nearside tyre tracks and Secondary should be in the centre when obstructions are present.

OMG, have you spent all this time assuming because it's called "Primary" it's where people spend the most time? No wonder this thread has gone on for so long!

I doubt anyone spends the majority of their time in primary - it's a safety position taken when the road conditions dictate it. Most people move back to secondary as soon as the pinch point has passed precisely so they don't obstruct drivers from safely overtaking. Most drivers recognise this. This may not be overjoyed to be stuck behind the cyclist but they do understand why.

Of course some drivers still object, but a driver who objects to being prevented from an unsafe manouevuer is nothing more than a bad driver. Accepting roadcraft lessons from bad drivers doesn't seem like a smart approach to me.

 

[jimboalee]

No, my experiences don't suggest this at all.



OMG, have you spent all this time assuming because it's called "Primary" it's where people spend the most time? No wonder this thread has gone on for so long!

I doubt anyone spends the majority of their time in primary - it's a safety position taken when the road conditions dictate it. Most people move back to secondary as soon as the pinch point has passed precisely so they don't obstruct drivers from safely overtaking. Most drivers recognise this. This may not be overjoyed to be stuck behind the cyclist but they do understand why.

Of course some drivers still object, but a driver who objects to being prevented from an unsafe manouevuer is nothing more than a bad driver. Accepting roadcraft lessons from bad drivers doesn't seem like a smart approach to me.

So really, they have been named 'arse about face'!

Primary - prevalent,
Secondary - safety.

That's easy to remember.


I still stand by my conclusions.

Cyclists get shouted at, cursed and 'buzzed' because the motorist thinks the cyclist is taking too much of the carriageway, ie 'getting in the way'.

 

[BentMikey]

Jimbo, you are on a hiding to nothing. Cyclecraft is widely acknowledged as best practice, it's published by the government stationary office, it's recommended by ROSPA, and it's in large part the basis for National Standards/Bikeability cycling. These methods lead to less conflict, fewer incidents and much lower overall risk.

You are simply this: WRONG.