BentMikey and a Subaru Driver

[Tinuts]

I have a plan. And it's a good one. Since, BM, you'll not be spending the night with me any time soon, I wondered if you were going to the next CM.........?

I have a better plan: Lend f1_fan a bike and get him to go.

 

[thomas]

And being serious for a minute a skidpan lesson would teach a lot of drivers a thing or two about handling their vehicle in less than ideal road conditions. I am lucky enough to do trackdays and skidpan courses every now and then because I enjoy them, but they also teach me a lot about driving my car in different conditions.

I find a lot of people drive more aggressively in bad weather...or don't adapt for it. In Sweden (I think) you have to have a couple hours in skidpans before you can pass your driving test.

Teaching advance driving practices, like that, probably isn't a bad idea.

 

[dellzeqq]

I have a better plan: Lend f1_fan a bike and get him to go.

That's a very good plan. F1_fan - how tall are you and where do you live? I have a bike I can lend you. You'll get a bit of instruction and advice on fitness thrown in for free.

 

[f1_fan]

That's a very good plan. F1_fan - how tall are you and where do you live? I have a bike I can lend you. You'll get a bit of instruction and advice on fitness thrown in for free.

Believe you me if you want to keep the roads safe then putting me on a bike 19 years after last being on one is not the answer

 

[Dan B]

While what you say has some validity I would see the person with barbed wire and take extra care around them because I know I would come off worse if I were to collide with them whether it is my fault or theirs.

Well, that's certainly prudent and I commend you for it: allowing for the errors of others is always a good thing. But it still wouldn't be your fault if you didn't see them. Perhaps they emerged unexpectedly from around a corner, or ran into you from behind - or maybe you had a physical disability that made it impossible to get out of their way in time.

And that is the part of the argument you seem unable to comprehend. Yes car drivers should take more care, but that does not alleviate other road users from being responsible for their own saftey and that of others to a certain extent too.

I don't think anyone's suggested otherwise, and I'm sure if you look through the other threads on this board you will find that most cyclists take responsibility for their safety quite seriously.

But how far does that go? Somewhere way back in the discussion was a post by someone (it may have been you, I can't remember any longer) who had given up cycling after being hit by a car because they felt it was too dangerous on today's roads - is that the level of responsibility we should all be held to? Is it the level of responsibility we will be held to in ten years time? That we deserve what we get if we go out on the streets without a metal box around us? The country will be a poorer place if so.

Also you keep banging on about me deep down believing the roads are not really shared spaces.

Er, no. If you thought I mean that personally I can see why you're upset, but the first time I explicitly said that I assumed it didn't apply to you, and the second time it was part of a hypothetical. But I see enough drivers whose words and actions indicate that they don't think other people have the same right to use the road as them (honking horns, or the incessant "you don't pay road tax" complaint) that I think it is in general one possible explanation why they're so blase about 3000 deaths a year.

 

[Tinuts]

Believe you me if you want to keep the roads safe then putting me on a bike 19 years after last being on one is not the answer

That's a shame. I was going to lend you a helmet cam so you could re-live the memories with the grandchildren in years to come. Assuming, of course, that you have a big enough helmet for it to fit on.

 

[hackbike 666]

Yeah welcome back BM missed you.

 

[BentMikey]

You might have missed this topic, f1_fan. It's relevant:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=42711

 

[BentMikey]

I have a plan. And it's a good one. Since, BM, you'll not be spending the night with me any time soon, I wondered if you were going to the next CM.........?

I'd love to meet up! I'll try to make the next one...

 

[purplepolly]

While what you say has some validity I would see the person with barbed wire and take extra care around them because I know I would come off worse if I were to collide with them whether it is my fault or theirs..

Many people have visual impairments and often this isn't bad enough for a guide dog but is bad enough to affect the persons ability to see great distances or judge speed. This often leads to people losing confidence and becoming increasingly isolated and dependent.

As someone with a mild eyesight condition that has to potential to suddenly get worse, the frequency with which I see motorists go through red lights at pelican crossings (well ater the lights have changed) is a cause for concern. I'm not one to sit around at home all day and have been described as cross awkward so I thoroughly expect to end my days on a pelican crossing.

Would this be my fault for not giving up? I suggest not. Motorists should be aware that pedestrians may have visual or mental impairments and drive accordingly. It's hardly rocket science, yet many drivers seem to think that pedestrians are just as able as themselves depsite the fact they're more likely than a driver to be disabled like this.

 

[f1_fan]

Many people have visual impairments and often this isn't bad enough for a guide dog but is bad enough to affect the persons ability to see great distances or judge speed. This often leads to people losing confidence and becoming increasingly isolated and dependent.

As someone with a mild eyesight condition that has to potential to suddenly get worse, the frequency with which I see motorists go through red lights at pelican crossings (well ater the lights have changed) is a cause for concern. I'm not one to sit around at home all day and have been described as cross awkward so I thoroughly expect to end my days on a pelican crossing.

Would this be my fault for not giving up? I suggest not. Motorists should be aware that pedestrians may have visual or mental impairments and drive accordingly. It's hardly rocket science, yet many drivers seem to think that pedestrians are just as able as themselves depsite the fact they're more likely than a driver to be disabled like this.

Well I sincerely hope you do not end your days on a pelican crossing and if drivers are stupid enough to run pelican crossings on red then they need prosecuting. Fact!

I think maybe my point is getting misconstrued a little. All I am saying in the barbed wire scenario is that if I have the ability to take more care around the guy with the barbed wire I will.

Let me give you a real world example of that.

Every evening I leave work and my first major intersection is a three lane roundabout controlled by traffic lights. Now in my opinion this roundabout is not really suitable for three lanes as they are quite narrow. I am turning right so position myself in the right most lane indicator on. Now sometimes I will end up with a huge truck next to me in the centre lane as he will be going straight on. In this case and especially if I am near the front of the queue I will let the truck go first as with the lanes being so narrow it is all too easy for the truck to 'use' part of 'my' lane and could potentially collide with me and as to my right is a large raised kerb demarking the centre of the roundabout I will have 'nowhere to go'.

Frequently when this happens I get a car behind sounding their horn while I wait, but I don't care. This is my way of dealing with the hazard. I could trust his judgement to see me and give me room but being as I am going to come off very much the worst I drive defensively to eradicate any chance of a collision.

Now luckily I have the ability to do that, your situation is somewhat different hence I can see your point too. Of course drivers should try and behave sensibly and responsibly to other road users be they pedestrians or otherwise. As I said earlier we all have a responsibility on the road. I still come back to the fact that for us all to co-exist happily and safely we all need to be aware of each other, the limitations of our various means of transport and take responsibilty for our actions.

I am not the best driver in the world, I know that and I have made mistakes, but I try to look out for other road users be they cyclists or huge trucks or anything in between and I do drive as defnesively as I can.

A driving instructor once told me that I should never expect other road users to be as aware of me as I am of them and that has stuck with me all this time.

 

[Mark T]

Now sometimes I will end up with a huge truck next to me in the centre lane as he will be going straight on. In this case and especially if I am near the front of the queue I will let the truck go first

If you're in a Scooby, surely you could get to the apex first?

 

[dellzeqq]

Believe you me if you want to keep the roads safe then putting me on a bike 19 years after last being on one is not the answer

you underestimate my expertise. As an accomplished rides leader (I've improved since you TEC'd BM) and as someone who has, many a time, guided an inexpert rider across Central London, you'd get a sound education. And education is not to be sniffed at.

 

[f1_fan]

If you're in a Scooby, surely you could get to the apex first?

Ah well the daily driver is a small Honda, the Scoob is for weekend and track fun

 

[f1_fan]

you underestimate my expertise. As an accomplished rides leader (I've improved since you TEC'd BM) and as someone who has, many a time, guided an inexpert rider across Central London, you'd get a sound education. And education is not to be sniffed at.

Underestimate you? Never! You just overestimate my cycling ability. Inexpert wouldn't be the half of it!