Profpointy
Legendary Member
I learnt to drive in my Dad's DAF. ... and I can confirm you are absolutely right
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
I learnt to drive in my Dad's DAF. ... and I can confirm you are absolutely right
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
Not by me they're not! I always advocate the spending of the bare minimum amount necessary to acquire a useable and reliable bike, especially if someone is only "trying out." cycling and there is no guarantee they will enjoy it or stick at it. You won't find me advocating purchases of £5-600 minimum level bikes on the C2W scheme, which seems to be the standard response of many. Instead I'll suggest they trawl the small ads or auction sites and try to source a basic steel hybrid or rigid MTB secondhand for as little cash as possible, and get riding on that and use it to become familiar with routine maintenance and repairs.
Slick
Guru
I must admit, on a recent trip to the Netherlands I stopped more than once just to watch in awe at the sheer number of people on bikes and the different type of people from all ages and backgrounds. I did wonder about a couple of things though, like would we be as successful at sharing our cycling facilities with mopeds and how long would it take some wee ned on a scooter to flatten someone? I also wondered what affect the weather would have on anyone not interested in cycling, cycling. I've discovered that I love the challenge of so called poor weather but I'm not sure everyone else would feel the same.
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
No such thing as bad weather, provided you have good gear.
Within limits, of course.
Within limits, of course.
Slick
Guru
Agreed, but would that be the same for people just interested in getting from A to B in the most efficient fashion possible?
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
Yes, I think clothing becomes a bigger consideration, the more you cycle. I commuted from work for some time, and soon found it necessary to have good clothing, coats, etc. for that. Bicycle as well, although I used a heavier, older Schwinn MTB for the commute, it was also a very quality machine.
Smokin Joe
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
Helmets put a lot of would be casual cyclists off. They just want to ride a bike with the minimum preparation and expense and it is surprising how many non cyclists think they are a legal requirement.
Rusty Nails
We remember
- Location
- Living in the slow lane
I volunteer at a community bike workshop that refurbishes and sells old bikes. I always enjoy the test rides on the Dutch and Dutch style bikes we get. They are always very comfortable and I feel quite calm and stately riding them.
My normal riding involves a fair number of hills and lasts between 20 & 30 miles, or shorter off-road rides so I stick to my road, hybrid and mountain bikes, but a Dutch style bike for the weekly trip to work or shopping is definitely on the cards.
My normal riding involves a fair number of hills and lasts between 20 & 30 miles, or shorter off-road rides so I stick to my road, hybrid and mountain bikes, but a Dutch style bike for the weekly trip to work or shopping is definitely on the cards.
DCBassman
Guru
- Location
- The lumpy far South West
This is precisely why I snapped up an old mixte at the dump recently. Stately. I like that.
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
It's somewhat ironic though, that people insist on referring to traditional roadsters as "Dutch bikes", when the origins of the design are actually English! Many parts of the world ended up using English-style roadsters for mass transport because, at the time, we manufactured and exported vast amounts of goods to all those countries where we had influence or a strong trade relationship.
Vantage
Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
- Location
- Behind everyone else, Bolton
If there's one thing that confuses me, it's why people insist on spending up to a grand on a bike to ride to work simply because they're available on ctw. We see it all the time. They end up with the lightest carbon fibre, skinny tyred, mudguardless, rackless, slammed for racing road bikes with the most useless gears ever to do a 10 mile trip to work having never been serviced or looked after properly where it'll sit outside all day waiting for johnny lightfingers to come along and nick it for drug money.
It's like buying a Ferrari for the purpose of nipping to Tesco for the shopping.
It's like buying a Ferrari for the purpose of nipping to Tesco for the shopping.
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
Not disputing that. But I'd like to know why that is the starting point?
Is it the Bike to Work scheme allows people to buy a "free" bike?
Is it that there are not many utility/functional bikes (at least in comparison to NL) that they have nothing to base their target on?
Is it marketing? Once you start to look, especially online, you start getting hit with all kinds of info and ads. How many people buy things (not just bikes) with features they do not need because the marketing told them they "need" it? Starting off, people are more more susceptible to such messages.
One of the points made in the article that my anecdotal experience backs up is that there are a lot of regular Dutch people on bikes who know next to nothing about fixing a bike. So the question is why such a culture difference? Perhaps one of the reasons is that the bikes are pretty much indestructible and tyres are built for protection not speed?
Is it that there is such an infrastructure in NL to deal with this (repair shops at most train stations that will fix basics) because of the density of regular people on bikes?
In fairness, that's everywhere. Until a recent rebuilding of the local train station I could walk down, hand over a 20 and point out the bike I wanted stolen to be delivered to me personally. Bike theft happens everywhere!
That's fair enough.
Sometimes I wonder if the people asking the questions actually know what they are asking about.
I used to sell things to people and in my experience, when people picked up ideas of what was "best" from external sources rather than their own experience, they rarely knew what they were looking for, or at least didn't get the value of their purchase.
What we never get is any feedback on are the numbers of people who go out, get a new bike and give up after a while.
Here's the thing - the Dutch market is full of early adopters. New technology, new concepts - they love them. Yet the majority of the population ride around on bikes that many here on this forum would not consider, or indeed advise someone to buy. Why?
I understand the arguments you are making, I guess my question is why are those arguments so powerful in one country and not another?
Don't get me wrong, people here buy good bikes too. I recall being in a specialist shop as a lady was picking up her brand new Santos Rohloff Touring bike with lots of bells and whistles. Cost? 4k. I asked her where she was going for her first tour to be told that it was for doing the boodschappen - the shopping!
In any case, I believe that there won't be a significant voice for the cycling community until the voices of the regular person on a bike join with those of the cyclists. And those people need bikes!
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
I know!
And I've seen many of your posts where you've gone to the effort of suggesting specific bikes for the poster.
But.... it's not the norm and the advice is rarely taken.
The question is why?
I honestly believe the weather is a red herring used as an excuse by lazy people. I live in an area of higher than average rainfall, For almost three years I've walked to work each day (approximately thirty minute walk). I could count on one hand the amount of times I've actually got wet. I am prepared - I keep an umbrella at home and one at work. I have become good at second guessing the weather and whether or not I need protection from the elements.
