Birthday Bike - Pashley? Gazelle? Something else?

[SkipdiverJohn]

I suppose my, possibly deluded, idea was born from watching Velocipedium on YouTube and watching how he cruises around on his three speeds.

He isn't running anything like standard gearing though. What he does is put on the largest rear sprocket readily available for the SA hub, I believe 23T running to a 46T chainwheel. His rides look easy because he's running ratios that are almost a whole gear step lower than standard. You may have noticed he uses top gear a lot more than most riders of 3-speeds do, because his 3rd gear is only really "2 and a bit"!
If you do that on a 26" wheel bike, your direct drive 2nd gear is 52". Normally you might expect to find a 18T on the back combined with a 46T front, so giving a direct gear of 66".
His top gear is only 69" (i.e. 52" x 1.33 step-up) which means you will soon spin out on a decent flat road with any tailwind. Standard 3-speed Raleigh gearing is a little too high, IMHO, but only a little. I'd say 19T/46T on a sports model with cable brakes and 20T/46T on a rod-braked chaincase model is probably optimal, in that it gives you a bit better acceleration and gradient performance without limiting your clear road speeds.
My own Raleigh 3-speed is geared 19T/46T, giving me a 63" 2nd gear. I suspect it's original, and may have been standard on the enclosed chaincase rod-braked models, because they weigh more. Mine weighs 40 lbs not 35, and you feel any climbs.

 

[tyred]

It's better to gear your Sturmey on the low side if you live somewhere hilly like I do. A top gear of around 70" is perfect as you can use it most of the time and have climbing gears too.

I normally gear my fixed wheel bikes at around 63" and ride at 18 or 20mph usually on the flat. For a roadster, you will go as fast as you need to in most circumstances with a 70" gear. You can always freewheel.

 

[GeekDadZoid]

I'm going to do some experiments on the Wayfarer this coming week once it's new pedals arrive and see how I get on adding some weight to it. That's probably as best I can do in these times.

I will keep looking around at alternative lifetime bikes.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

For a roadster, you will go as fast as you need to in most circumstances with a 70" gear. You can always freewheel.

Unless you enjoy high cadence pedalling, and I don't, a 70" gear is a bit limiting in good riding conditions. Sometimes you can get bits of your route where it all comes together; nice smooth surface, good clear visibility without junctions, maybe a very gentle downwards decline, and zero wind or a slight tailwind. In these conditions, you can really motor along without really breaking much of a sweat so long as you aren't having to pedal as fast as you can, and this is where a moderately high top gear comes in.
If you gear a bog standard SA wide-ratio hub for a 60" 2nd gear, it gives you a 48" 1st gear and a 80" 3rd. If the terrain isn't too punishing, such a 3-speed will not be that much slower overall than a derailleur gear bike with a lot more ratios.
The way I look at it, if you are just pootling at a moderate pace, your bike is correctly geared if you are in your middle gear. if you are already in top gear doing only 12 or 13 mph, then you've geared it too low.

 

[tyred]

It's horses for courses and whatever works for the individual but it would be murder riding a 48" bottom gear around here. I could do it for short rides but if I was going out for 50 miles or more it is less tiring to spin a low gear for a few hours than to push a high gear. Especially if you are facing the might of a North Atlantic headwind which I can get if I head west.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Absolutely, but the terrain in rural Ireland is generally more hilly than in much of Southern England, although saying that I wouldn't want a 48" lowest gear for riding down in Cornwall or Devon either!
I have the utmost respect for anyone who toured back in the pre-derailleur days on a heavy roadster with only a 3 or at best, 4 speed SA hub gear. They must have been very fit, had super strong legs, and yet still spent some time walking up hills.

 

[GeekDadZoid]

OK, so you already have a Raleigh Wayfarer and like the way it rides. Don't start laughing now, but let me say this; a Wayfarer, by 3-speed roadster standards, is actually quite a sporty bike!. The weight, give or take, is 35 lbs and they are built on the Raleigh Sports frame which has quite nimble handling. They're no racers but they aren't tanks either.

The kind of traditional roadsters you are contemplating, sometimes referred to as "Dutch bikes" are usually quite a bit heavier, have bigger wheels, longer wheelbases and slacker, more ponderous geometry. Comfort-wise in a straight line - great. Handling on twists & turns and the amount of effort required to get one up a gradient - not so good.

I would think very hard before buying something like a Pashley or Gazelle with 28" wheels. They look nice and traditional, but they are best suited to flat terrain, as they lack the very low gears of a triple-equipped hybrid or MTB that takes the pain out of getting a heavy bike up an incline.

I've given quite a bit of thought as to what I would like from a 3-speed and for me it comes down to practicality and low maintenance but without excessive weight. The problem is, the lightweight end of the 3-speed market has pretty much become extinct. What's left is the heavy end. My intention is to build a lightweight 3-speed from a 1980's 531 tourer frame I have and fit as many alloy components as possible. That should give me the practical qualities I want but still be fairly sprightly. I can't buy such a bike new any more though, so my only option is to build one DIY.

So update time. I took the advice of @SkipdiverJohn and though seriously about this and ended up buying an old Union Dutch Bike which weighs in well over 20kg, 3 speed and drum brakes and I love it, my default bike now. In fact I love it so much I do not want to replace it, its the perfect run around nipping to the shops or a Sunday cruise. So after much deliberation my birthday bike is something completely different.....

6 speed Brompton. The do it all bike that folds.

As suggested by @Fab Foodie a 6 speed Brompton, I am so excited, roll on September.

 

[Fab Foodie]

So update time. I took the advice of @SkipdiverJohn and though seriously about this and ended up buying an old Union Dutch Bike which weighs in well over 20kg, 3 speed and drum brakes and I love it, my default bike now. In fact I love it so much I do not want to replace it, its the perfect run around nipping to the shops or a Sunday cruise. So after much deliberation my birthday bike is something completely different.....



As suggested by @Fab Foodie a 6 speed Brompton, I am so excited, roll on September.

Woo hoooooo!
My S2E in Cloud Blue (to complement the fully loaded 6 speed) is just in at the bike shop too :-)

Did you test ride one? What colour?

 

[TheDoctor]

I didn't see this thread first time round but I'd have suggested a Brommie of some sort.
My MR12R is in need of some new tyres after a decade on Marathons. They're getting a bit thin and deflationary...

 

[GeekDadZoid]

Woo hoooooo!
My S2E in Cloud Blue (to complement the fully loaded 6 speed) is just in at the bike shop too :-)

Did you test ride one? What colour?

I didn't test ride one! I tried but the world conspired against me. I did actually popped into the shop today with a friend who was looking at an electric so I got to try it for size, but I had already ordered mine.

I have gone for the black, keeping it simple. It should be in the shop by mid July, but I will have to put it away until September.

I didn't see this thread first time round but I'd have suggested a Brommie of some sort.
My MR12R is in need of some new tyres after a decade on Marathons. They're getting a bit thin and deflationary...

Funnily I really wanted one this time last year and then saw the cost. I ended up buying a cheap 20 inch folder and whilst I enjoyed riding it there was no point to folding it as it was still huge.

 

[GeekDadZoid]

 

[Bonefish Blues]

That was a journey from your OP

 

[GeekDadZoid]

That was a journey from your OP

It was wasn't it :-)

Although I do now also have a big Dutch bike which I ride most days.

Very excited about the extra flexibility this will give me, especially with the family days out and holidays that we go on, where I have a some spare time for Brompton based adventures.

 

[Phutatorius]

Absolutely, but the terrain in rural Ireland is generally more hilly than in much of Southern England, although saying that I wouldn't want a 48" lowest gear for riding down in Cornwall or Devon either!
I have the utmost respect for anyone who toured back in the pre-derailleur days on a heavy roadster with only a 3 or at best, 4 speed SA hub gear. They must have been very fit, had super strong legs, and yet still spent some time walking up hills.

I'm in Devon and ride a Tour Populair T8. I think people make too much of the weight of the bike. I'm not quick up the hills on it but seldom have to dismount. As for range, the longest I've gone in a day is 60 miles. The limiting factor in my case is that I put on weight during lockdown and that's what's been slowing me down. Apart from my cardio limitations, it has been a comfortable ride.

As for old bikes, I once had the opportunity to ride a safety bike from 1900. It was single-speed with no freewheel, weighed about 20 kg, and the gearing was quite high. The frame geometry was quite similar to the Tour Populair. My impression was the same as yours: people back then must have had good leg strength, probably because most of them were doing hard physical labour, as well as walking much more than we do now.