Bl**dy pavement riding RLJ's...

[dondare]

Pavement cycliing is dangerous.

Most the time it is irritating, annoying, infuriating to pedestrians. But it is still dangerous.

It's dangerous because it helps reinforce the views of some motorists, that we SHOULD be on the pavement, not on the road. And the in turn those motorists try and enforce their views on those of us who choose to cycle on the road, usually by trying to run us off said road.

(Not to mention ignorant traffic police and Circuit Judges.)

Riding on the pavement is counterproductive to us all.



When I say pavement, I am specifically talking about the footway. The raised pavement alongside a road provided for pedestrians. Footpaths (as in public rights of way) are different - they fall under different legislation. And whilst we have no right to cycle on them, it's not exactly illegal either. It's upto the landowner.

Cycling on the footway is illegal. Cycling on foot paths is upto the landowner. Cycling on the road is legal, unless a TRO prohibits it.

Black and white to me.


And for the record, if I NEED to use the pavement, I dismount and walk. And I can't actually remember a time when I have NEEDED to use the pavement in many years and many many thousand miles of cycling.

 

[Origamist]

A few times I have bunny-hopped onto the pavement in order to avoid being squeezed/hit. Once on the pavement, I brake hard and stop, and then get back on the road.

 

[marinyork]

Some of the advice for cyclists is not good.

The HC isn't just law. It's a hierarchy of rules and advice. Some of the bad advice is near the bottom of the hierarchy B).

 

[dondare]

I have never done it, I use the road or a designated cycle path. RLJ is also a no no for me too, I don't do it in my car so why should I when I'm cycling?

It's stupid and wrong, people always see the bad side of things, and it's people like you who give law abiding cyclists like me a bad name.

I'm tired of the amount of close passes I get on my commute, by drivers who see me as nothing but a tax dodging criminal. If every cyclist used the roads in the same way I do then we might get the respect we deserve.

I'm in 100% agreement with this.

Cyclists will never get respect from car drivers, nor will motorcyclists. It's all because us on two wheels have the ability to pass them with ease while they're stuck in their boxes wasting fuel stuck in traffic.......And do you know what.......I really don't give a sh1t if i get respect or not.

Lack of respect leads to lack of consideration which could get you killed.
What's really bad is the lack of respect that you've earned could get me killed.

 

[MacB]

I do feel that it's immaterial to some extent, yes motorists cite RLJing etc but one would suspect the bad drivers will be bad regardless of what goes on around them. I've been looking at this in more detail and have also changed my riding slightly, though I only have 2 sets of lights on my commute:-

set1 going - I turn left at lights from the main thoroughfare, the road is quite fast and narrow. I take the lights as they come, have never filtered up either side and hold my place in the queue. There really isn't any space on the inside and the outside would be too hazardous in this situation.
set1 returning - if need be I filter on outside to my own imaginary ASL at the front. I know the lights sequence and can see the lights that the main road traffic sees. I go when they stop rather than waiting for my lights to change, gives me about a 5 second start. My justification is that I'm turning right onto the main road and really want to avoid an overtake as I turn(it has happened previously), as the road is too narrow and it could force me off. I then adopt primary until past the queue of cars at the lights to stop any vehicles trying to overtake and also forcing me off. This whole thing normally takes me about 10-15 seconds.

set2 going - main road splits into two with right hand lane being right turn only. I filter on outside to an imaginary ASL and then wait my turn. In the past I didn't filter and, as it's a quick change right turn light that pops up, failed to make it through, thus seriously peeing off drivers behind.
set2 returning - again I filter to my imaginary ASL, generally on the inside due to shape of road and fact I'm turning left. I again go by main road light sequence as, when the right turn light comes on then I am safe to turn left onto main road. I do this as it's two lanes at this point(which quickly return to one lane) and I turn right after 50 yards. I have previously been stuck on the inside unable to cross to the right turn feeding bit.

So I'm now an RLJer despite my previous protestations. Neither of these junctions involve pedestrians, I still use my eyes rather than just go when the lights indicate. My defence would be that in both instances I'm making an unorthodox manouever to avoid a higher risk manouever/situation. It's not a speed thing as evidenced by my willingness to wait in the traffic queue.

 

[Trevrev]

I'm in 100% agreement with this.



Lack of respect leads to lack of consideration which could get you killed.
What's really bad is the lack of respect that you've earned could get me
killed.

Don't blame me if you get killed...That'll be your problem. Same as if it's the other way round.
I do what i need to do to get on in life. I take chances. Thats what life is about.
I don't care if people ride on the paths, be it cyclists or horses, I don't care if cars park in cycle lanes.......If cyclists want to jump red lights, thats their choice. If they get hurt, thats their problem. Worry about yourself not about others around you !!

 

[dondare]

If I get killed I won't be blaming anyone, but my argument is sound.

It occurs to me that people who behave just however they like only get away with it because of the majority who keep the rules. If society turned to anarchy, then the ones who are anarchists now would be the first to go under.

 

[thomas]

If I get killed I won't be blaming anyone, but my argument is sound.

It occurs to me that people who behave just however they like only get away with it because of the majority who keep the rules. If society turned to anarchy, then the ones who are anarchists now would be the first to go under.

Are pavement cyclists anarchists?

 

[dondare]

Don't blame me if you get killed...That'll be your problem. Same as if it's the other way round.
I do what i need to do to get on in life. I take chances. Thats what life is about.
I don't care if people ride on the paths, be it cyclists or horses, I don't care if cars park in cycle lanes.......If cyclists want to jump red lights, thats their choice. If they get hurt, thats their problem. Worry about yourself not about others around you !!

You want your life to be exciting. I want to leave work this evening and arrive safely home and my wife and kids are hoping for that, too. Most of the members on this forum would also appreciate a danger-free commute.
The link between the way people behave and how they are treated is undeniable. When cyclists are perceived to behave in complete ignorance or defiance of the law then motorists do not accord them the protection that the law obliges them to; a red-light-jump will be repaid with a dangerously close overtake, for instance.

 

[dondare]

Are pavement cyclists anarchists?

The first step towards anarchy is for everyone to decide which laws they will obey and which they will ignore.

 

[thomas]

I don't believe that someone, sensibly cycling along the pavement is the cause of my close overtakes. In the sense that "ohh, cyclist law break".

Maybe in the sense that "cyclists should be on the pavement"...but in the end of the day, a lot pavement cyclists will build their confidence up and join the road, this gives all of us a bigger presence along with reducing traffic on the roads.

Even if all cyclist used the road we'd still have the "should be on the pavement attitude".

I don't think RLJing is right, however at 1 in the morning if the roads are empty I don't really have a problem with it. I think lights at night (where appropriate) should flash amber - you can go, but be careful.

 

[Trevrev]

You want your life to be exciting. I want to leave work this evening and arrive safely home and my wife and kids are hoping for that, too. Most of the members on this forum would also appreciate a danger-free commute.
The link between the way people behave and how they are treated is undeniable. When cyclists are perceived to behave in complete ignorance or defiance of the law then motorists do not accord them the protection that the law obliges them to; a red-light-jump will be repaid with a dangerously close overtake, for instance.

If you want a danger free commute then you'd be best off on the path !!
We all take risks, even if you don't see it yourself....We all cycle down that busy dual carriage way.....If thats not a risk on a bike then what is !!!

 

[summerdays]

though I only have 2 sets of lights on my commute:-

If I'm going into town for example I would have about 18/19 sets of traffic lights I think!! over about 3 miles or less.

 

[MacB]

If I'm going into town for example I would have about 18/19 sets of traffic lights I think!! over about 3 miles or less.

I know it's sickening, I did actually plan commute route to avoid certain stuff but lights never came into the equation. It was only after all the chat on here about lights that I even thought to count them. I had to recount as I couldn't believe only 2 sets in 20 miles. The first set is after 8 miles and the second after 10.3 miles. It's not like we're talking really rural either. I travel from Cove in Farnborough to just short of Maidenhead off the A4. Cut across country, skirt around Wokingham(that's both sets of lights) and then over towards Binfield and on through White Waltham.

God I'm sad, I've just counted up all the stuff on my commute, so I have:-

2 traffic lights
1 level crossing - very unlucky to get caught at it
7 largeish roundabouts
6 mini roundabouts
15 turns at T junctions or crossroads - doesn't include some turns at roundabouts

That's it, the rest is straight forward riding on the same road - no wonder I don't like cycling in London much

 

[Garz]

Mac.. that is sad! But its reality so we forgive ya!