BME (Black, Minority and Ethnic) representation in cycling clubs

[swansonj]

Give the lad a break. This forum is too full of people desperate to prove their PC credentials. It's a kind of virtue-signalling contest.....

I guess one person's calling out racist language is another person's virtue signalling. But in the face of things like:

.... If people of different origins want to ride a bike they will, clearly they don't. So what?

And

Exactly my view as well. I really don't know why anyone would give a toss whether different ethnic groups choose to cycle or not. It's up to them to decide either to ride or not to ride....

on a thread which is all about understanding factors affecting the participation by ethic minorities, it seems all the more important to call out instances of unthinking use of language which is discriminatory and potentially offputting to BAME cyclists (or, indeed, people ).

 

[Globalti]

I can't understand what's unthinking or discriminatory about those two quotes.

Nope... just read 'em again and still can't see it. What do you suggest would have been the PC thing to write?

 

[swansonj]

I can't understand what's unthinking or discriminatory about those two quotes.

Nope... just read 'em again and still can't see it. What do you suggest would have been the PC thing to write?

As I expect you are fully aware, the "unthinking and discriminatory" referred to use of "ethnic" to mean "non-white", as in "ethnic cyclists", not to those two posts.

Those two posts merely show an extraordinary lack of interest in or sensitivity to the experience of other people.

 

[Smokin Joe]

As I expect you are fully aware, the "unthinking and discriminatory" referred to use of "ethnic" to mean "non-white", as in "ethnic cyclists", not to those two posts.

Those two posts merely show an extraordinary lack of interest in or sensitivity to the experience of other people.

Feck me, the thread is about why people from minority ethnic groups don't cycle much. Myself and a few others have given our opinions as to why, if you think that is racist the problem is you.

 

[bladesman73]

Lots of entitled white blokes pontificating. Both funny and sad.

Yeah, im so entitled. Coming from a single parent family, growing up on a sink estate in sheffield, mum too ill to work, no money from an absent father, clothes all handed down from cousins. Yeah, so fckin entitled. Do some thinking before posting such tripe next time.
All I can see on this thread are people making sense. Culturally for example those whose heritage is the Indian Subcontinent see cycling as something poor people do. You cant eradicate decades of such bigoted thinking overnight. It isnt racist or a signal of 'white privilege' by pointing out facts.

 

[Ian H]

You cant eradicate decades of such bigoted thinking overnight.

You do make that point very eloquently.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Yeah, im so entitled.

Yup. You are.

 

[lane]

Not in my club no. Good gender balance though.

 

[Moodyman]

The club I often ride with has a good representation of society at large: male/female/white/black/brown/straight/gay/vegetarian/meat eaters/young/retirees.

And yet, I can't recall an instance where these factors were overtly noticed or discussed. We simply turn up and ride together, share our stories with one another, eat and drink together and look back fondly at our shared adventures.

For we ride a bike. That is all that matters.

As to why some ethnic groups don't ride bikes. Pffft. That's their loss.

 

[Slow But Determined]

Feck me, the thread is about why people from minority ethnic groups don't cycle much. Myself and a few others have given our opinions as to why, if you think that is racist the problem is you.

Fair do's Joe I think me and you could be related, we both like a ciggie and have had enough of nonsense!!

 

[swansonj]

Feck me, the thread is about why people from minority ethnic groups don't cycle much. Myself and a few others have given our opinions as to why, if you think that is racist the problem is you.

You have indeed helpfully given one factor in the under-representation of minority ethnicities in cycling, essentially about the cultural attitudes to wealth, status, and the behaviours that indicate wealth.

Having identified that one, valid, factor, you seem resistant to exploring other factors. One can't help noticing that the factor you are comfortable in identifying and discussing is to do with "them" and if it is to change, it is "them" that must change. Your resistance seems to be to identifying factors that are to do with "us", where, if change is to happen, it would be "us" who changed. That could just be laziness and complacency - self examination and change are always hard work, and it's so much easier if we can put the onus on someone else. In this specific case, however, it is unavoidable that there is an association with race: the people with whom you identify the problem as resting with are BAME, the people you are resistant to recognising any problem with are white.

The use of "ethnic" to mean non-white, which has cropped up in this thread, is pretty incontrovertible evidence that the factors are not just to do with "them": there are indeed factors to do with "us" that, whether deliberately or unwittingly, display racist attitudes. We can debate how significant those factors are in comparison to the other, perfectly valid, factors that you have identified, but we can't exactly deny that they are there when they've been posted on CycleChat and defended when challenged

 

[Moodyman]

I think, sometimes people who do not fit the BAME description can get more upset on our behalf. I found nothing in the above statements to suggest any ill-intent. Perhaps the word ethnic is not very PC, but I understood the context in which it was used.

My experience is that of a South Asian. I concur with the perceived status of riding bikes. My wife hid it from our family and friends for several months when I started commuting to work. I'm of the white collar above average income type of employment so economics was not a factor. Folk knew we were a one car family at the time and she had the car. She always said I caught the train before I could answer.

Secondly, many BAME communities earn below average income and so, the focus is on acquiring skills/income to move up the social ladder. Recreational activity can be seen as a distraction to this aim.

 

[mudsticks]

Does the membership of any cycling club accurately reflect the BME makeup in their catchment area? Should it?

I'm curious to know the motivation of the op in asking this question.

What is (his?) angle on all this?

The answer to the first question must surely vary from place to place, has anyone done the statistical analysis?? .

And as to the second question.

Whether it matters, well that's got to depend.

If it is just a cultural aversion, as suggested by some, because of the associations that some groups have around cycling, then no problem really, except I'd imagine we'd all say more people on bikes in general, yes please because it's ace.

But at the same time, each individual, very much to their own choices.

However, if people from BaME groups are being put off joining clubs because they fear not being made welcome, or have other anxieties of that nature then that's another matter, and that needs addressing, assuming the club is being run by half decent human beings.

Without asking the people in question, as to why they're not joining in, its very hard to know the answer really.

White guys saying "Oh, it's all pc gone mad" about measures to counter discrimination that they'll never have experienced, is almost self satirising nowadays, but it does still seem to get said in all seriousness.

I'm not in any cycling clubs, and I live in a very white area, so it's very hard to make an observation as to numbers in my area.

However, In my field (ha) of agriculture, I speak to quite a few people from ethnic minorities about their feelings around entering farming, or food growing as an occupation.

Some have made it in, but also many of them have said that they often feel unwelcome, in such a traditionally 'white' arena.

My progressive little farmers Union, does what it can to highlight these problems, and we definitely have a bigger proportion of membership from non white communities, than say the NFU, but there's still a good way to go, before those groups have any significant representation in farming and food growing in this country..

Even though I've met many people from BaME groups who say they would like to be involved.


So what was the point of the original question please??

 

[Smokin Joe]

My experience is that of a South Asian. I concur with the perceived status of riding bikes. My wife hid it from our family and friends for several months when I started commuting to work. I'm of the white collar above average income type of employment so economics was not a factor. Folk knew we were a one car family at the time and she had the car. She always said I caught the train before I could answer.

The same as my experience as an Irishman. No one in my extended family, whether living here or back in Ireland could understand why anyone would chose to ride a bike when they had a car. For Irish people of mine and a few subsequent generations bikes were a means of transport that was quicker than walking and that was the only reason people ever rode one. Those who could afford a car were envied and as the standard of living rose and most people could become car owners the bikes went the same way as the horse and cart. I've lived among and worked with many non white people in my life and I found their attitude to be the same.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

My immediate neighbours are Hindu, across the square Muslim, three doors away Carribean. I have seen them all in the square as their kids have learnt to ride bikes. The kids have loved getting to grips with bikes. But their parents have never gone for a ride with their kids, nor allowed them to go for a ride by themselves. I've spoken with my neighbours, too dangerous, they don't cycle themselves and too old to learn etc. So they've been restricted to a few loops of the square.

If kids can't see other kids like them cycling and their parents don't going on cycling adventures with them; then I can see it would be hard to grow to love cycling after the initial excitement.

As to cycling clubs I didn't join one till my mid 40's. I'm not sure traditional cycling clubs are the answer, but maybe school cycle clubs where all kids are encouraged to go along to would see changes. But as we know a number of schools seem to be anti cycling, run by a generation that didn't grow up doing it.

I used to think and still think that the habits / interests you develop as a kid last long into adulthood. We seem to have a whole generation that missed growing up with cycling being a normal and everyday activity. Now their children are finding it means their introduction to cycling is not as great as it could be.

White kids can pressure their parents by pointing at all the other white kids cycling. But if you are an ethnic minority kid there are not quite so many "Look someone like me does it" examples to pressure parents with.

If things are going to change we need to make positive encouraging changes to cycling at childhood that is inclusive and welcoming for ethnic minority parents, even if they themselves do not cycle.

Random thoughts from me anyway .