BME (Black, Minority and Ethnic) representation in cycling clubs

[bladesman73]

Yup. You are.

No i am fckin well not. My early life was a struggle to make something of myself whilst middle class kids, of various races may i add, had all of the advantages economically, socially and mentally. Being white does not mean you have entitlement in the UK, class determines privilege and where I was from the middle class was not exclusively white. Do some research before making such glaringly inaccurate assumptions.
As for cycling, many of the kids parents in my area where i grew up couldnt afford a bike, mine included. I didnt get my first bike until my first week at uni when I used my grant to get a 2nd hand peugeot racer, my dream of having a bike was sorted!

 

[slowmotion]

You have indeed helpfully given one factor in the under-representation of minority ethnicities in cycling, essentially about the cultural attitudes to wealth, status, and the behaviours that indicate wealth.

Having identified that one, valid, factor, you seem resistant to exploring other factors. One can't help noticing that the factor you are comfortable in identifying and discussing is to do with "them" and if it is to change, it is "them" that must change. Your resistance seems to be to identifying factors that are to do with "us", where, if change is to happen, it would be "us" who changed. That could just be laziness and complacency - self examination and change are always hard work, and it's so much easier if we can put the onus on someone else. In this specific case, however, it is unavoidable that there is an association with race: the people with whom you identify the problem as resting with are BAME, the people you are resistant to recognising any problem with are white.

The use of "ethnic" to mean non-white, which has cropped up in this thread, is pretty incontrovertible evidence that the factors are not just to do with "them": there are indeed factors to do with "us" that, whether deliberately or unwittingly, display racist attitudes. We can debate how significant those factors are in comparison to the other, perfectly valid, factors that you have identified, but we can't exactly deny that they are there when they've been posted on CycleChat and defended when challenged

Could you just accept that some people simply don't want to join cycling clubs? I don't want to be in one because I feel that I wouldn't "fit in". Just because I'm white and middle class, should I feel that I want or want to? Does anybody beat themselves up about it if I don't?

 

[Slow But Determined]

No i am fckin well not. My early life was a struggle to make something of myself whilst middle class kids, of various races may i add, had all of the advantages economically, socially and mentally. Being white does not mean you have entitlement in the UK, class determines privilege and where I was from the middle class was not exclusively white. Do some research before making such glaringly inaccurate assumptions.
As for cycling, many of the kids parents in my area where i grew up couldnt afford a bike, mine included. I didnt get my first bike until my first week at uni when I used my grant to get a 2nd hand peugeot racer, my dream of having a bike was sorted!

Bladesman, when I get the hang of this new board I will give you a big thumbs up. Well said mate even if I did get chased halfway around Sheffield after a match at Bramhall Lane back in the 70's!!!

 

[mudsticks]

My immediate neighbours are Hindu, across the square Muslim, three doors away Carribean. I have seen them all in the square as their kids have learnt to ride bikes. The kids have loved getting to grips with bikes. But their parents have never gone for a ride with their kids, nor allowed them to go for a ride by themselves. I've spoken with my neighbours, too dangerous, they don't cycle themselves and too old to learn etc. So they've been restricted to a few loops of the square.

If kids can't see other kids like them cycling and their parents don't going on cycling adventures with them; then I can see it would be hard to grow to love cycling after the initial excitement.

As to cycling clubs I didn't join one till my mid 40's. I'm not sure traditional cycling clubs are the answer, but maybe school cycle clubs where all kids are encouraged to go along to would see changes. But as we know a number of schools seem to be anti cycling, run by a generation that didn't grow up doing it.

I used to think and still think that the habits / interests you develop as a kid last long into adulthood. We seem to have a whole generation that missed growing up with cycling being a normal and everyday activity. Now their children are finding it means their introduction to cycling is not as great as it could be.

White kids can pressure their parents by pointing at all the other white kids cycling. But if you are an ethnic minority kid there are not quite so many "Look someone like me does it" examples to pressure parents with.

If things are going to change we need to make positive encouraging changes to cycling at childhood that is inclusive and welcoming for ethnic minority parents, even if they themselves do not cycle.

Random thoughts from me anyway .

This is the kind of thoughtful, cause and effect appraisal of the situation that can help unpick why things are, as they are, right now.

I've long believed that "It's much easier to be it, if you see it"

That extends to all sorts of non trad groups taking part in activities, which have been seen, up til now as 'not for them' .

Whether it's women being engineers, for example, or people from certain ethnicities doing things their parents generation wouldn't countenance.

Some people might call this extra encouragement unnecessary social adjustment.

But my own experience has shown that if people see, or even hear of other people who 'look' like them, doing certain activities, they themselves are more likely to feel emboldened to give it a go.

And conversely, if that person feels they are the only representative of their particular type, doing a certain activity, they'll feel a little less confident, or even as if theyd have to be super brilliant at the thing, so as to represent the entirety of their grouping.

I don't know if the 'already established' folks, realise that all this 'background noise' fear of not being accepted, can be so loud for so many people.

 

[G3CWI]

I'm curious to know the motivation of the op in asking this question.

So what was the point of the original question please??

Curiosity. It’s been interesting to see the range of opinions. The National Parks have done quite a bit of work looking at why some parts of society are under-represented in visitor numbers which may be relevant. Some (most?) areas of cycling seem a bit behind, even in terms of gender balance. Occasionally it’s good to step back and take a look at the wider picture perhaps?

 

[mudsticks]

Curiosity. It’s been interesting to see the range of opinions. The National Parks have done quite a bit of work looking at why some parts of society are under-represented in visitor numbers which may be relevant. Some (most?) areas of cycling seem a bit behind, even in terms of gender balance. Occasionally it’s good to step back and take a look at the wider picture perhaps?

Thanks for letting us know, and yes it's been very interesting to see the responses.

As an intersectional dweeb* myself, with a interest in equality of rights and opportunities, in all areas of life wherever possible, these things fascinate me too.

I was just wondering where your interest came from.

*maybe nerd would be a better word than dweeb

 

[mjr]

You want to ride a bike, you go into a shop and buy one. They won't refuse to sell you one because you are black or Asian and no one will try and stop you riding it.

That's not what I've seen in a few bike shops. Maybe not outright refuse but very discouraging. Not only bike shops, to be fair: I've heard racist shoot from sales staff in supermarkets and department stores, even before the 2016 emboldening. Difficult to challenge when it's only words and they've always denied it when I complain to store management later. I do wonder if I look so white that I somehow invite such comments to be made in front of me

ObOP: the local cycling campaign group I ride with is very white but so is the local population so that tells me little. We have had various other minorities ride and I've noticed some rides are female-majority, but no-one keeps detailed stats AFAIK.

 

[Pablo Biscuitbar]

This thread was quoted by someone as to why it would be difficult to have a discussion on the black lives matter issue.
They were right.
It's impossible to have a rational discourse with virtue signalling people who lack the ability for critical thought.

 

[classic33]

This thread was quoted by someone as to why it would be difficult to have a discussion on the black lives matter issue.
They were right.
It's impossible to have a rational discourse with virtue signalling people who lack the ability for critical thought.

Critical thought now required to ride a bike!

I'll be honest and say I've paid more interest in the bike than the colour of the person riding it.