Bollo’s futile dispute with UPS

[Bollo]

I’m anticipating the outcome.

I thought people would enjoy what might evolve into some hilarious corporate two-hattedness. I started this in the “what have you bought…” thread but this has too many legs to disrupt the flow.

To summarise, I recently ordered a Canyon-specific nano bike light direct from the excellent Lupine. I have a Lupine Betty that’s at least 13 years old, seen me through many dark rides and burned the eyeballs of many drivers who can’t be bothered to dip their lights for cyclists, but the battery has finally given up.

At this point I’ll declare a bias. This story is a direct consequence of Brexit. Anyone sad enough to remember the old NACA Brexit thread will know that I wasn’t a fan and I’m not a fan now, but I’m not a fantasist. Import costs and red tape are a fact whether I like it or not.

Back to the story. Lupine will charge me an ex-VAT price of €260.50 for the light+delivery. Lupine make a thing of their German manufacture and source most of their parts within the EU. My understanding is that the lights should therefore be subject to zero import duty. So, my estimate of the end cost was (€260.50 + UPS brokerage) x 1.2 for the VAT. Let’s assume the brokerage is a tenner, so the total that Her Majesty pockets is round €52 or £46 in real money.

UPS are the chosen carrier, so once the lights are dispatched I receive a notification that I need to pay £11.35 brokerage plus …. £85 and pence for ‘Government Charges’. Thinking emoji. That ain’t right.

First stop is an attempt to look at UPS’s website for more information. It is not helpful. Next up, the chatbot.

10 PRINT “Refer to our website”
20 GOTO 10

Who knew Sinclair BASIC was still a thing.

Phone call to the helpline next. Turns out it’s located on the dark side of the moon so the sound quality is a problem. Eventually I provide my email address so that they can send me an email so I can provide my details (including an email address).

Here’s the email exchanges to date.

I have ordered a bicycle light from Germany.

…a repeat of the calculation above….

You are asking for payment of £85.62 ‘Government Charges’.

I believe this is double the amount due. Could you correct this amount or, if not, explain how it was calculated.

The parcel is due next Monday and I would like to pay the correct amount to avoid delivery issues.

I’ve included a copy of invoice from the supplier with the value of the goods (ex vat) shown.

Thanks in advance, Bollo.

The reply comes back very quickly. I’m impressed, until…..

Charges are worked out based on what we call the landed value. Landed value is declared value of goods + freight + duty (if applicable) = VAT payable and duty is worked out on the value of the goods + freight VAT is charged at standard 20% but duty is dependent on he commodity code given but duty ranged from 2% to 12%

Okaaaay, so I reply…

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I am aware of this calculation but this isn’t a specific breakdown for my goods and I still can’t see how you arrive at the £85 figure.

If you refer to the attached invoice, the total cost (goods + freight) is €260.50. The goods are a bike light manufactured in Germany, which I believe is not subject to any additional duty. Unless you’re using a punitive EUR to GBP conversion rate, the additional charges do not add up to £85.

Even taking the worst case of 12% duty, 260.50 x 1.12 = 291.76. The vat payable on this is 0.2 x 291.76 = €58.35, or approx £49.

Could you please provide the specific breakdown calculation for my delivery, including the duty you believe should be applied, plus the EUR to GBP exchange rate you are using. None if this is available on your website or your charges invoice so I have no reference to be convinced that this figure is correct.

This time a reply isn’t forthcoming. With the delivery due I decide to pay up rather than get embroiled in further complication, which could involve me being liable for the return import costs to Germany on top of having no lights. The light arrives. It’s great, even if the fitting instructions are a bit scant. But still no reply from UPS. As a week has passed, I decide to follow this up…

You haven’t replied to my email below. Since my last request I’ve paid the amount demanded only so that I could receive the goods and not incur further return charges and risk losing both my money and the goods. I still dispute the amount paid.

The delivery did confirm that the value of the goods was clearly displayed on the package to the value of €260.50. I include photos as evidence. It may be the case that the exporter made an error when booking the delivery, but without any information from you I can only assume that any error is yours.

Please reply with your breakdown for the ‘Government Charges’ listed in the invoice, or at least where my calculation is substantially incorrect.

And that’s where I am right now. TBH I’m in full d1ck mode. If I can spaff 250 dabs on a bike light I can afford an extra £40 in ‘costs’ but I hate people taking the p1ss, and this feels like a p1sstake.

Apologies, I’ve <old timey reference>gone full Benstead </> but I reckon this could get entertaining. I’ll keep you posted.

 

[dan_bo]

Please do. This is ace.

 

[slowmotion]

UPS has a reputation for synthesizing "interesting " charges on imported goods. I've been badly burned in the past. My experiences of them as a carrier within the UK have not been good either.

BTW, I detest the sh1te colour of their delivery vans too. USE FEDEX!

 

[SydZ]

They have your money now. Doubt you will hear from them again on this matter.

 

[RoubaixCube]

They have your money now. Doubt you will hear from them again on this matter.

That is not strictly correct....

If one thinks that they have been stiffed or short changed, It is possible to take it up with a small claims court and it starts from £25 online or (£30-35 if filling out a form) depending on the amount of damages you wish to claim.

If they cant give Bollo a breakdown on how they came up with the 'Government Charges' then they'll waste even more than that £85 fighting it out in court as they'll have to pay someone to come and represent them as well as all the other expenses to do with travelling and food blah blah blah.

It can be a bit of faff but if you have time on your hands, you file a claim at a small claims court and see how far the rabbit hole goes (if you feel that strongly about it)

sometimes its the principle of the matter that you have to stand up for.


More info can be found here if interested

 

[si_c]

My suggestion would be to contact them and advise that unless they provide a breakdown of how the charges were calculated within a reasonable time frame (say 5 working days) then you'll accept that as an acknowledgement that the charges were unfounded and raise a chargeback with your bank.

Then do so. At the very least they will have to provide the bank with details of the calculation as evidence to support the charges were correct and if that clearly is not the case then the bank may well do a partial refund.

Edit to add: You're at least likely to get a response this way as there are costs to them if the chargeback is raised.

 

[PaulSB]

You've bought an expensive light which you're very happy with and expect to last you +/- 13 years. You're unhappy at paying UPS £40 which you feel is incorrect and I can sympathise with this.

On the other hand £40 spread over 13 years. £3 per annum so for me life is too short and I've far, far better things to do with my time. I'd shrug my shoulders and get on with life as it's just a question of knowing when one is on the wrong side in a losing battle.

 

[newfhouse]

I do hope they will pass the ‘government charges’ on to the government. Failing to do so would be fraud, wouldn’t it?

 

[winjim]

Personally I think if you've got those daft handlebars on your bike then you deserve all you get.

Keep it up though, I'd be interested to see what happens.

 

[Bollo]

All good points so thanks for the input. I've pretty much written off the £40 so I'm viewing this as more an exercise in cussedness than anything else. I'm in no hurry, so the plan right now is to show that I'm making a reasonable effort to engage with UPS.

There is a more practical point that Lupine operate a battery take-back, so it might be possible to get a replacement battery for my old but perfectly usable light and see the knackered battery recycled or disposed of correctly. Except that would require goods crossing borders and, well.... my fingers have been burned.

Personally I think if you've got those daft handlebars on your bike then you deserve all you get.

Keep it up though, I'd be interested to see what happens.

It's a cockpit, wimjim. A cockpit. (TBH I've no idea what's going on with the bars in that linked picture either - mine are the more traditional 'single-deckers').

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Just commenting to support you and congratulate you on your attitude - people like this need to be challenged

And adding my support for carrying this forward - I presume you can recover and reasonable costs from them

at teh end of the day if you cause a charge back or take to to the small claims court then it will get the attention of senior people
and if their system is dodgy they need to be aware
in many big organisation the people at the top never know what is going on until a formal complaint is logged

anyway - well done - keep it up!

 

[bikingdad90]

The commodity code goes into the intrastat returns that all companies in the EU who import/export have to fill in. You can look up the code here https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/find_commodity

Have you been stung by the country of origin rules, although sourced from the EU, it might be they were built outside the EU in china and sometimes where it is over a certain percentage a duty applies.

 

[Milkfloat]

Have you asked Lupine what code they used? It is entirely possible that they used the wrong one as there will not be too many people importing that product to the UK.

 

[ianrauk]

In the shipping trade they are known as Useless Parcel Service

 

[T4tomo]

Go for it Bollo! I admire your bloodymindedness!

You could always sell the saga onto Joe Lycett and recoup your £40 that way, it has the making of one of his tales....