British Cycling and HSBC (and diversity in cycling)

[Dogtrousers]

Cycling clubs are all about cycling (or at least they should be - yours are obviously the exception)

Thanks for educating me on what cycling clubs should be. It's nice to be able to hear from someone who is an authority on what things should and should not be. I did have some silly ideas about having fun and stuff, but I was clearly wrong.

 

[swansonj]

Btw,@Dogtrousers , you must tell me, where is that exquisite example of a (I think) L2 D30 pylon in your avatar? Beautiful picture.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Btw,@Dogtrousers , you must tell me, where is that exquisite example of an L2 D30 pylon in your avatar? Beautiful picture.

Thanks.

Its near Swanley on Crockenhill Lane just after the M25 bridge before it drops down to Eynsford . Taken a couple of weeks ago. The whole of the Darent valley was full of early morning mist.

 

[coffeejo]

No offence, but you two seem obsessed by what divides us, as opposed to what unites us. Cycling clubs are all about cycling (or at least they should be - yours are obviously the exception) - if you are riding a bike, then that should be all thats matters.

I'm trying hard to sympathise with you, but I can't help thinking that the issues you mention could all be easily be resolved by you simply 'not giving a sh1t what anyone else thinks and getting on with your life in any way you like.'

The cycling's fine. It's when some of the people riding the bikes express what they're thinking out loud and it turns out that they think you're a sub-species, a second class citizen, the butt of the joke, and so on and so forth. I can tell myself I don't care and some of the time I may convince myself to swallow that lie but I do care.

Do you know why?

Because making someone feel that they are worth less because of their race or gender or sexuality or disability or class or religion isn't a particularly nice thing to do, and the time is long since past when it's ok for for society (and societies - pun intended) to stand by and let it happen.

You're right, of course. It's not about what people think. It's what they say and what they do. It hurts and it's not right. Furthermore, some people use their fists or other weapons to express their thoughts. There is a link between one person cracking a homophobic "joke" and someone else massacring people in a gay club. It's different ends of the spectrum but it's the same spectrum nonetheless.

I'm sorry that you seem to lack to empathy to understand why diversity matters, why some of us might lack the confidence that others will accept us for who we are but I guarantee that anyone who expresses this concern has previously been on the receiving end of some kind of abuse, and I doubt it's just once. It's bullying, really, and there comes a point where you lose faith in other people: it's beaten out of you with every jibe, every comment or sideways look, every time someone doesn't want to sit next to you on the bus, or sniffs in disgust, or thinks it's ok to make you the butt of the joke or objectifies you in some other way. Stuff happens and people don't always mean it - but it's especially difficult when you try to explain why it matters and you're dismissed out of hand and told that you're the one with the problem!

 

[swansonj]

Thanks.

Its near Swanley on Crockenhill Lane just after the M25 bridge before it drops down to Eynsford . Taken a couple of weeks ago. The whole of the Darent valley was full of early morning mist.

Ah. Pylon ZZT041 which is indeed an L2D30. You'll have to forgive me - I feel obliged to live up to the pylon nerd image I've created for myself. But I genuinely do think it's a stunning photo .

 

[coffeejo]

Oh, by the way, I'm not saying that BC is directly racist as an organisation or that you are a racist person, but rather than we, as a society, are institutionally racist and that feeds into nearly every aspect of every day life. We're also sexist and homophobic and disabilist (is that a word?) and anti-Semitic and Islamophobic and ageist and ... the list is inexhaustible. We're privileged and we look down on those who we view as less than ourselves. Those who can't see this are, I'm afraid, part of the problem.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

No offence, but you two seem obsessed by what divides us, as opposed to what unites us. Cycling clubs are all about cycling (or at least they should be - yours are obviously the exception) - if you are riding a bike, then that should be all thats matters.

I'm trying hard to sympathise with you, but I can't help thinking that the issues you mention could all be easily be resolved by you simply 'not giving a sh1t what anyone else thinks and getting on with your life in any way you like.'

Do you take lessons in how to be lacking in empathy?

 

[S-Express]

Wow, you don't see a problem do you? [MOD EDITED] You're denying other individuals' personal experiences, and basically telling them to mtfu [sic] and try harder to fit in. Great advert for BC.

I don't work for BC - my views are my own. Their views are their own. I'm an egalitarian and I'm a libertarian and I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin colour, origin or ability. Where cycling is concerned, there is only one aim - and that is to ride a bike.

I also believe that routinely highlighting differences like this (as some of you here seem to revel in doing) simply underlines the differences to the point where the differences become the focus, rather than the similarities which we all share.

 

[coffeejo]

*sigh*

 

[S-Express]

CoffeeJo has already said that the video you put up doesn't speak to her

Doesn't sound like you've read/understood the thread properly - I didn't put it up.

Your approach is mistaken

You forgot to add 'in your opinion' - my own opinion is that I think your approach is mistaken.

I don't much like BC's ethos and wouldn't join them anyway. HTH.

What do you think of BC's Breeze initiative? Or have you never heard of it?

 

[S-Express]

So you didn't, sorry. But you defended it:

I defended an instructional video because it does the job of an instructional video. Let's not over-think it.

You are denying people's personal experience again.

I haven't ever denied anyone's experience. The fact that you think I have is part of the problem.

I ride with Breeze occasionally. I was only able to do so once BC abandoned their ridiculous insistence on helmets for social rides. I have issues with the training that the ride leaders get though. Some of it starts to try and turn an enjoyable, social cycling experience into a mock chaingang, and shifts responsibility for safety away from each individual rider in a way that I dislike. But this is getting miles away from the thread theme, so I'll leave that one there if you don't mind.

These rides are going great guns in my area, that's why I was asking. Very popular among female riders of all ages. It's such a shame that once again you would prefer to pick holes in such an initiative, rather than support it. But that's been the theme throughout this thread, sadly.

 

[swansonj]

... and I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin colour, origin or ability. ....

I'd suggest that on this thread you are presenting as someone who says that, rather than as someone who actually believes it. I'd suggest that in order to believe that, in our society in our generation, you have to show some engagement with understanding what steps might be necessary. Doing nothing does not treat people equally, it perpetuates the status quo of inequality.

 

[S-Express]

I'd suggest that on this thread you are presenting as someone who says that, rather than as someone who actually believes it. I'd suggest that in order to believe that, in our society in our generation, you have to show some engagement with understanding what steps might be necessary. Doing nothing does not treat people equally, it perpetuates the status quo of inequality.

You are very presumptious to tell me what I believe. Where does that come from?

If I have a group of 10 kids on bikes and three of them are from BAME backgrounds, then important thing is still that there are 10 kids on bikes. Nothing else matters, IMO. Incidentally, the kids themselves couldn't give a stuff either.

I would imagine your focus would be drawn to the three. My focus is on the 10. That's proper inclusivity. And that's probably where we differ.

 

[Buddfox]

You are very presumptious to tell me what I believe. Where does that come from?

If I have a group of 10 kids on bikes and three of them are from BAME backgrounds, then important thing is still that there are 10 kids on bikes. Nothing else matters, IMO. Incidentally, the kids themselves couldn't give a stuff either.

I would imagine your focus would be drawn to the three. My focus is on the 10. That's proper inclusivity. And that's probably where we differ.

They're not telling you what you believe, they're telling you how the way you come across implies what you believe. That's something anyone can have an opinion on, but for what it's worth, there seem to be a whole bunch of us that have drawn the same conclusions about what you believe. You don't care, you think we're arrogant, but we're all seemingly interpreting what you're writing in the same way.

It seems possible there could be more than one important thing about the scenario you describe. First, that there are ten kids on bikes (important and great!). Second, that 30% of them are BAME, higher than the average for the population. Double great and also important! You seem only to be concerned about the former, when it's entirely possible to be concerned about both, no?

 

[S-Express]

It seems possible there could be more than one important thing about the scenario you describe. First, that there are ten kids on bikes (important and great!). Second, that 30% of them are BAME, higher than the average for the population. Double great and also important! You seem only to be concerned about the former, when it's entirely possible to be concerned about both, no?

The % could just as easily be lower or higher. Possibly lower in a go-ride club in Devon, for instance - possibly a lot higher in a go-ride club in Hackney, for example. Once again though, you guys are focusing on the wrong aspect. The actual number I use in the example is irrelevant. There could be one, there could be none, there could be all 10. The important thing is the treatment of ALL the kids in the group is no different.