British Cycling and HSBC (and diversity in cycling)

[Flying Dodo]

Adding a bit of token BAME content is just patronising and pandering to armchair critics who have never actually got off their arses to get involved in the first place.

Either there are women and non whites participating in BC events or there aren't. If you say adding that demographic to the video is just a token effort, then that means you're stating it wouldn't then reflect reality and means you're confirming BC is almost exclusively white and male.

And for the record, I'm a BC member and do lots of volunteering for Cycling UK and Sustrans.

 

[S-Express]

You are the one who made the link between asians and 'no-go' areas - not me. The only privileged position I hold is the one that enables me to understand what is happening at grass roots level at BC far better than you seem to.

Either there are women and non whites participating in BC events or there aren't.

Clearly and obviously there are. What an absurd statement.

 

[coffeejo]

I suspect this is a wind-up, but I'll indulge you both for now...

Let's say you were learning to drive - would you only accept instruction from someone of the same gender and ethnicity? If the answer is 'no' - (and I'm going to assume it would be), then you can have no basis for disregarding an instructional video on bunch riding skills for the same reason.

Ironically, your attitude serves to reinforce inequality, not remove it.

My driving instructor was a white man in his 50s. I was 17 and he gave me the creeps. Conversations with other girls my age suggested I wasn't the only one. At the time, I said nothing and stuck with it because, well, people write their PhD theses on the reasons why this happens so I'll simply say that I didn't feel empowered to complain.

Now, for my own reasons, I won't get in a car with a man I don't know. If I were to receive driving lessons, it would most definitely be from a woman.

Why not ask some women or anyone non white if they feel the BC video is inviting and addressed to them?

Already answered!

 

[S-Express]

My driving instructor was a white man in his 50s. I was 17 and he gave me the creeps. Conversations with other girls my age suggested I wasn't the only one. At the time, I said nothing and stuck with it because, well, people write their PhD theses on the reasons why this happens so I'll simply say that I didn't feel empowered to complain.

Now, for my own reasons, I won't get in a car with a man I don't know. If I were to receive driving lessons, it would most definitely be from a woman

I've no idea what point you are trying to make with any of that. It doesn't even relate to my post which you quoted.

 

[coffeejo]

Let's say you were learning to drive - would you only accept instruction from someone of the same gender and ethnicity?

My driving instructor was a white man in his 50s. I was 17 and he gave me the creeps. Conversations with other girls my age suggested I wasn't the only one. At the time, I said nothing and stuck with it because, well, people write their PhD theses on the reasons why this happens so I'll simply say that I didn't feel empowered to complain.

Now, for my own reasons, I won't get in a car with a man I don't know. If I were to receive driving lessons, it would most definitely be from a woman.

I've no idea what point you are trying to make with any of that. It doesn't even relate to my post which you quoted.

Er. You've lost me.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I've no idea what point you are trying to make with any of that. It doesn't even relate to my post which you quoted.

It relates entirely for the reasons we've already stated. The fact that you're not able to understand is exactly the problem.

 

[S-Express]

Christ, you two are special.

The driving lesson analogy was just that - an analogy. It was meant to underline the fact that the point of the video was the message it contained, not who was delivering it. You two (or is it three) clearly have big problems in separating the two.

I understand perfectly well the need to be unbiased and inclusive, as I'm sure BC does. However, you can't help but get yourselves wound up over an issue which appears to be of your own making. Get over yourselves. I'm out.

 

[coffeejo]

I have no idea what just happened and I choose to blame a combination of too much coffee and not enough sleep.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Christ, you two are special.

The driving lesson analogy was just that - an analogy. It was meant to underline the fact that the point of the video was the message it contained, not who was delivering it. You two (or is it three) clearly have big problems in separating the two.

I understand perfectly well the need to be unbiased and inclusive, as I'm sure BC does. However, you can't help but get yourselves wound up over an issue which appears to be of your own making. Get over yourselves. I'm out.

As previously pointed out, the video is representing BC - as I've already said, it's an advert. You're the only one who can't see it's sending out a bad message, due to your lack of ability to see things from someone else's point of view. The fact that you've confirmed you can't understand the unease @coffeejo suffered from a creepy driving instructor merely underlines that. I sincerely hope that you're more sympathetic to any women in your life.

 

[dellzeqq]

Ultimately, your group failed though - by your own admission - as it was not representative. Perhaps if you had included more BAME content on your website, things might have been different.

I only called you an armchair critic, because you are criticising BC without ever having been a member, or volunteering for them. I don't think that's an unreasonable reference, any more that it is unreasonable for you to criticise BC for being unrepresentative.

there's failure and then there's BC failure. In the first instance you give it a good go and fail, and recognise the fact, and, in the second instance you don't try, do even worse, and don't recognise the fact.

The other question is this - why are there so very few non-white competitive cyclists in this country? We could all name a few from days gone by (including my least favourite bike shop owner) but if you look at the diversity in other sports, starting with football and cricket, going on to athletics and rugby....well, we don't compare well.

 

[livpoksoc]

I think he might be asking me to clarify your request for a clarification. Or something.

Anyroadup - BC's website, along with the CTC mag and any number of cycling publications, both electronic and print, is remarkably short of black faces. Compare and contrast with the Wiggle ads on TV.

Now HSBC puts a lot of effort in to portraying itself with people - customers, people who work for them and so on. It thinks about the mix of people that are shown on print, on the telly, and on the internet. Somebody, probably a colleague of livpoksoc, is going to look across and see a bit of a deficit.

I'm surprised that Sky didn't lean on BC - whatever I think of Sky they are no less careful than HSBC.

well, the point I made at the beginning about representation still stands. And, forgive me, but whether the video is made by BC or not, it's the video on the BC website.

Now...BC is in receipt of public money, which binds them to the charter for sports governance, which, in turn, sets out a programme for diversity. The figures for women's membership was on the website six weeks ago, but I can't find it now - but from memory, it's about 15%. I can't find a figure in the 2015 annual report and I can find no mention of non-white membership - although there are plenty of photographs both in the report and on the website that suggest that is not so very large.......

Now...since I have the link, people might want to whizz through the 2015 annual report. Women, even if they constitute a small proportion of the membership, are very well represented - so that's good. And...there's a sikh man on the Bradford ride and the story of Maryam is heartwarming, but, then again, it's not exactly good.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/corporate/BC_Annual_Report_2015.pdf

BC needs to work this one out. As does the CTC, which, judging by the photographic representation in the Mag is pretty much all white.

Unfortunately I can't really comment on HSBC's plans for the relationship, however what I can say from what I do, is that the HSBC brand has to represent diversity throughout. Whether that filters through to BC from 2017, I don't know as it would depend on the relationship. As I said though, the ads related to the Rugby 7s and Golf are very inclusive. The picture on this article includes a few senior faces. Whilst they are white, the most senior there is female and the CEO of the UK bank (pictured seperately in the article) is LGBT, and the bank is making good strides to ensure diversity at a senior level.

 

[swansonj]

....I don't know what the level of PhD participation was, but I do know that FD and I were not the smartest items on the block, no sirreeeeee.....

I do recall one ride where two people with the same Christian name were cycling together. Wanting to give specific directions to one of them, you called "left, X!" (or whatever the instruction was). Realising that this wouldn't distinguish which of them you meant, you immediately qualified it "left, Dr X!". And they still both turned left....

 

[swansonj]

I suspect this is a wind-up, but I'll indulge you both for now...

Let's say you were learning to drive - would you only accept instruction from someone of the same gender and ethnicity? If the answer is 'no' - (and I'm going to assume it would be), then you can have no basis for disregarding an instructional video on bunch riding skills for the same reason.

Ironically, your attitude serves to reinforce inequality, not remove it.

D'you know, I've read most of this thread desperately hoping that it was you engaged in a wind up,because the alternative, that you genuinely don't "get" the issues, was just too depressing.

 

[S-Express]

D'you know, I've read most of this thread desperately hoping that it was you engaged in a wind up,because the alternative, that you genuinely don't "get" the issues, was just too depressing.

What - the issue that because there is allegedly a lack of BAME riders featured on the website, then BC is therefore institutionally racist?

Or the other issue - that equality and diversity run through pretty much everything that BC does at grass roots level - and rightly so.

Which of those issues are you referring to? I'm effectively standing up for BC against a group of people with literally nothing better to do than pick holes in an NGB website over an issue for which BC has been measured and targeted on by its funding partners for years.

 

[huwsparky]

there's failure and then there's BC failure.

The other question is this - why are there so very few non-white competitive cyclists in this country?

Maybe you should be asking why there are so few non-white competitive cyclists world wide. It's pretty obvious to anyone who has a TV that this is the case yet your happy to blame it all at the hands of BC. I've read this thread and I still can't grasp your agenda.

Your not covering yourself in glory here I must say.