British Cycling and HSBC (and diversity in cycling)

[Flying Dodo]

I do get it - I suspect it is probably you that doesn't. There are already participants (I don't know how many, but enough to know that the inclusivity work is effective) within the go-ride and youth structure from outside the 'white' demographic nationally, and if you spent any time at grass roots level you would see that. You simply cannot take an instructional video out of context (one not even made by BC, incidentally) and extrapolate that BC is not inclusive, simply because the instructional video does not include anyone from a BAME background, it's simply absurd.

If BC didn't even make the video, then that doesn't absolve them from trying to portray a more inclusive organisation. Note I haven't actually said BC isn't inclusive, but made the simple case that it doesn't make them attractive to anyone who doesn't fit that young, white male image portrayed in the video.

 

[dellzeqq]

well, the point I made at the beginning about representation still stands. And, forgive me, but whether the video is made by BC or not, it's the video on the BC website.

Now...BC is in receipt of public money, which binds them to the charter for sports governance, which, in turn, sets out a programme for diversity. The figures for women's membership was on the website six weeks ago, but I can't find it now - but from memory, it's about 15%. I can't find a figure in the 2015 annual report and I can find no mention of non-white membership - although there are plenty of photographs both in the report and on the website that suggest that is not so very large.......

Now...since I have the link, people might want to whizz through the 2015 annual report. Women, even if they constitute a small proportion of the membership, are very well represented - so that's good. And...there's a sikh man on the Bradford ride and the story of Maryam is heartwarming, but, then again, it's not exactly good.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/corporate/BC_Annual_Report_2015.pdf

BC needs to work this one out. As does the CTC, which, judging by the photographic representation in the Mag is pretty much all white.

 

[S-Express]

Note I haven't actually said BC isn't inclusive, but made the simple case that it doesn't make them attractive to anyone who doesn't fit that young, white male image portrayed in the video.

My point is that such a video does not preclude anyone from a BAME background from buying a racing licence and going racing. It never has. If someone wants to do it, then they will. The important thing is that there are no barriers for anyone to get involved - and there aren't. Adding a bit of token BAME content is just patronising and pandering to armchair critics who have never actually got off their arses to get involved in the first place.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I think from memory women make up around 50% of the UK population. Clearly BC didn't realise that.

 

[Flying Dodo]

My point is that such a video does not preclude anyone from a BAME background from buying a racing licence and going racing. It never has. If someone wants to do it, then they will. The important thing is that there are no barriers for anyone to get involved - and there aren't. Adding a bit of token BAME content is just patronising and pandering to armchair critics who have never actually got off their arses to get involved in the first place.

The point is that a lot of less confident people won't take the first step, as they're being subconsciously put off. In the same way that in a job interview you can gauge within the first minute or so exactly what sort of character the person has, things like web sites and videos give an overview. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

 

[S-Express]

The point is that a lot of less confident people won't take the first step, as they're being subconsciously put off.

My point is that in areas with a high concentration of BAME groups, they are already well-represented at club level and there are no barriers to anyone becoming involved. The real work is done by the local youth development officers and regional coaches. But you don't want to hear that. You only want to complain about there not being enough BAME representation on the BC website and concluding that BC is somehow not inclusive because of it. Well that's bullsh1t.

 

[Flying Dodo]

But yet again, nowhere have I said that BC isn't inclusive and wouldn't welcome women/non whites who turn up with open arms. It's the first impressions thing you seem to have a problem grasping

 

[dellzeqq]

well, just to be clear. In my days running the Fridays we had 27% women participation on our rides - taken over each year. It did go up to 30% one year. We had about 10% non-white participation. And, although I didn't keep the numbers for this, we had getting on for 20% lesbian, gay, bisexual and transexual participation. I don't know what the level of PhD participation was, but I do know that FD and I were not the smartest items on the block, no sirreeeeee.

Now, the first figure was pretty darn depressing, and, as some on here know, a lot of thought was given to how it might be increased. That we didn't do better was a great disappointment.

Notwithstanding that, being told that we're armchair critics who have never actually got off their arses to get involved in the first place is just a bit silly.

 

[S-Express]

It's entirely your prerogative to make childish comments. But yet again, nowhere have I said that BC isn't inclusive and wouldn't welcome women/non whites who turn up with open arms. It's the first impressions thing you seem to have a problem grasping.

I'm saying that most new rider recruitment comes via local schools, clubs and other grass roots initiatives - not via the BC website. If you'd ever volunteered, you'd understand that.

 

[S-Express]

well, just to be clear. In my days running the Fridays we had 27% women participation on our rides - taken over each year. It did go up to 30% one year. We had about 10% non-white participation. And, although I didn't keep the numbers for this, we had getting on for 20% lesbian, gay, bisexual and transexual participation. I don't know what the level of PhD participation was, but I do know that FD and I were not the smartest items on the block, no sirreeeeee.

Now, the first figure was pretty darn depressing, and, as some on here know, a lot of thought was given to how it might be increased. That we didn't do better was a great disappointment.

Notwithstanding that, being told that we're armchair critics who have never actually got off their arses to get involved in the first place is just a bit silly.

Depends on your goals I suppose. Was your objective to 'get people cycling' - or was your objective to 'get a statistically-representative cross section of the population' cycling? Personally, I'd choose 'people' every time.

 

[dellzeqq]

Depends on your goals I suppose. Was your objective to 'get people cycling' - or was your objective to 'get a statistically-representative cross section of the population' cycling? Personally, I'd choose 'people' every time.

my goal was to create a club that was a nice place to be by making it as welcoming to all as I could. And, with a lot of help from people like Flying Dodo it did become that. You could turn up on a shopper or a carbon fibre racing bike, or a Brompton (sigh), you could be 15 (if you had a letter from your mum) or you could be something over 70, you could be unemployed or secretary of one of the biggest banks in the country, as long as you paid your two quid a year (and, sometimes we looked the other way on that, and paid their CTC subs for them).

And one of the ways we did that was to show all sorts of people on the webthingy. It wasn't superspiffy as these things go, but it got the message across. So....not so much of the armchair critic nonsense, please.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I'm saying that most new rider recruitment comes via local schools, clubs and other grass roots initiatives - not via the BC website. If you'd ever volunteered, you'd understand that.

And yet the video is surely an advert to entice people to participate? After all, immediately below it, it states
"If you love riding your bike and want to take the next step to racing, we've put together a quick guide on how to get into racing".

So it's just one source. If the local school, clubs and other grass roots initiatives are welcoming as you say they are, why not the video?

It's a simplified analogy, but there's quite a few places I wouldn't go to if I wasn't a 6' bloke, as I know otherwise I'd be intimidated by what they looked like, and be put off.

Edit: As an example here in Luton there's an area called Bury Park which is largely Asian. I know some people who would be too scared to walk alone through there. First impressions again.

 

[S-Express]

And one of the ways we did that was to show all sorts of people on the webthingy. It wasn't superspiffy as these things go, but it got the message across. So....not so much of the armchair critic nonsense, please.

Ultimately, your group failed though - by your own admission - as it was not representative. Perhaps if you had included more BAME content on your website, things might have been different.

I only called you an armchair critic, because you are criticising BC without ever having been a member, or volunteering for them. I don't think that's an unreasonable reference, any more that it is unreasonable for you to criticise BC for being unrepresentative.

 

[S-Express]

Edit: As an example here in Luton there's an area called Bury Park which is largely Asian. I know some people who would be too scared to walk alone through there. First impressions again.

Why? Is it because people are afraid of asians, or afraid of being attacked?

 

[Flying Dodo]

PS I forgot to mention I'm a BC member.

Why? Is it because people are afraid of asians, or afraid of being attacked?

Why not ask some women or anyone non white if they feel the BC video is inviting and addressed to them?