Buying my own components and asking LBS to install them for me

[CanucksTraveller]

If you're good at self repair then by all means buy or borrow the tools and leave the LBS out of the equation. If I don't have the tools, then I just pay the professional. A whole workshop of specialist tools and 20 years of experience wasn't cheap for the proprietor to build up, so personally I'm not going to offer up half a job to my LBS and negotiate exactly 23.5 minutes of their time by starting the job for them. I'd be more than happy to hand my bike over to the LBS and pay them to do a full and professional job. That's what they do for a living, and the owner and mechanics need to feed their families and pay the bills.

(In practice, it's unlikely to cost much less anyway should you choose to start the removal of the chain or cranks or whatever, the labour generally charges by the hour and they'll do the whole job in that time).

 

[PaulSB]

I live midway, 5 miles in each direction, between two small Lancashire towns. There used to be a choice of three LBSs in each town. Today five are gone leaving a choice of one and a chap who does cycle repairs out of his garage.

The LBS is only one example of the death of local independent retailers. Through not supporting these businesses we limit our own options and narrow the choice available to us. Longterm it's a poor choice by consumers.

I'm pleased I've been with the survivor 20 years.

 

[si_c]

I tend to look at the same cost benefit ratio. I look at the cost of the tools and the cost of getting my LBS to do it and the frequency of use.

Looking at the cost of a bearing extractor and bottom bracket press ( I tend to buy proper tools, I like tools ) it's probably more cost effective to have it done at the LBS. From experience I'd expect they will offer to fit for free if I buy the bottom bracket from them. They usually discount stuff for me and last time I popped in with a set of forks they didn't charge me to fit the crown race (I don't have a crown race tool either, rarely need to use one and there are too many sizes to not end up needing a new one each time), and I didn't even buy the headset from them.

But the caveat to that I buy a fair amount of stuff there, anything I am unlikely to find significantly cheaper online I buy there, even if I have to wait a few days for them to get it in. Cultivating a good relationship with a bike shop takes time but it's worth doing.

 

[bonzobanana]

I suppose its a sign of how cheap my bikes are that they have nothing proprietary and can be maintained and serviced with just one of those basic bicycle tool kits mostly. I don't think I've ever even seen a press-fit bottom bracket outside its box.

The more expensive and advanced the bike the more likely you will need services of a local bike shop with specialist tools and knowledge. I like custom ebikes but as pointed out in various threads local bike shops aren't interested in supporting those anyway. I do love to browse local bike shops and see what is available and do occasionally buy a few bits and pieces but they certainly can't rely on trade from people like me and most of what I buy is either an offer or on clearance.

I was in a local bike shop a couple of years ago and the person had bought a entry level mountain bike with quite a few accessories including a helmet. It came to about £1100 in total as I was there when he was paying. I think I could have bought a similar spec bike elsewhere like Halfords and the accessories online for about £500. Yes not the same branded products just similar but a huge price difference for the average person. I don't think people should feel guilty about buying from cheaper suppliers or buying higher spec bikes for the same money as low spec bikes in local bike shops. I've seen many bike shops disappear that I used to browse. There was Dorchester cycles who were always friendly and it was a joy to visit and look at their bikes and Coleman cycles in Taunton which again had some lovely bikes I liked to browse. I don't buy high end proprietary bikes I'm only a casual cyclist. I was sad that they disappeared but neither really did much in the way of entry level bikes and what they did sell was extremely poor value. I go into Waitrose and M&S food occasionally but rarely buy much due to pricing.

 

[Deleted member 121159]

Wow I didn't expect this topic would stir up such controversy. I do appreciate all the different sentiments expressed. None of them seems unreasonable to me, even if I don't share some of them. Let me respond to some of them:

1) "I have a pressfit tool, do you want it?"

Thanks for the offer, I'll get in touch when my BB fails! Hopefully not any time soon though.

2) "It's like buying anything (e.g., a sandwich) as opposed to making it yourself. If you are going to moan about the fee, do it yourself."

Fair enough, but when you go to a supermarket, you can see exactly what you are paying for. I can walk into a supermarket and decide to have someone make me a sandwich or just buy the ingredients myself or just walk out. There's no awkwardness there about what I decide to do because there's no relationship between me and the supermarket. Whereas if I walk into a LBS, I feel like I have to agree to things before I have time to consider all the options and make an informed decision. This actually happened. I went in with a damaged wheel (which as I realise now was beyond repair), and they said a good new wheel's going to cost £150. Well, I just walked out and ordered a Shimano 105 wheel online for £100 because I didn't feel like questioning them about the quote and arguing with them.

3) "We need them, so we need to support them."

I don't need them because I can do most maintenance. Bike maintenance doesn't require some specialist knowledge (by this I mean stuff like medical science or architecture). Obviously it takes much time and effort to be a good mechanic though. But you don't have to be at that level to do regular maintenance on your bike. I guess more broadly speaking I don't think I share this sentiment that we have to support local businesses. I'm probably from a different generation than many on this forum, and that's likely a major factor here. I'd happily do without local businesses on my high street. I rarely go to any of them because I can find better stuff for cheaper in supermarkets. Restaurants are an exception perhaps, but even then I don't patronise any business just because they are local and independent. They have to have something special to offer, otherwise I wouldn't be sorry when they disappear.

4) "My LBS/charity lets me to borrow tools and give advice."

This would be the best option for me. I don't think mine does, though.

All in all, what I'm unhappy with is the lack of transparency in pricing and the reliance on "building a good relationship" with people to get good service. I hope my viewpoint is not offensive to some, but I much prefer to have a strictly impersonal relationship with businesses. Yes, it's nice when you go to a local restaurant and they know you, greet you and show you to a nice table. But I'd happily let that drop for more transparency in pricing and being able to purchase exactly those items/services which I require. Really, I don't want to build relationships when I go to a shop (I do that elsewhere), I just want to buy the stuff/service I need at the lowest price possible. It's a bit of a cynical attitude I guess.

 

[vickster]

Wow I didn't expect this topic would stir up such controversy. I do appreciate all the different sentiments expressed. None of them seems unreasonable to me, even if I don't share some of them. Let me respond to some of them:

1) "I have a pressfit tool, do you want it?"

Thanks for the offer, I'll get in touch when my BB fails! Hopefully not any time soon though.

2) "It's like buying anything (e.g., a sandwich) as opposed to making it yourself. If you are going to moan about the fee, do it yourself."

Fair enough, but when you go to a supermarket, you can see exactly what you are paying for. I can walk into a supermarket and decide to have someone make me a sandwich or just buy the ingredients myself or just walk out. There's no awkwardness there about what I decide to do because there's no relationship between me and the supermarket. Whereas if I walk into a LBS, I feel like I have to agree to things before I have time to consider all the options and make an informed decision. This actually happened. I went in with a damaged wheel (which as I realise now was beyond repair), and they said a good new wheel's going to cost £150. Well, I just walked out and ordered a Shimano 105 wheel online for £100 because I didn't feel like questioning them about the quote and arguing with them.

3) "We need them, so we need to support them."

I don't need them because I can do most maintenance. Bike maintenance doesn't require some specialist knowledge (by this I mean stuff like medical science or architecture). Obviously it takes much time and effort to be a good mechanic though. But you don't have to be at that level to do regular maintenance on your bike. I guess more broadly speaking I don't think I share this sentiment that we have to support local businesses. I'm probably from a different generation than many on this forum, and that's likely a major factor here. I'd happily do without local businesses on my high street. I rarely go to any of them because I can find better stuff for cheaper in supermarkets. Restaurants are an exception perhaps, but even then I don't patronise any business just because they are local and independent. They have to have something special to offer, otherwise I wouldn't be sorry when they disappear.

4) "My LBS/charity lets me to borrow tools and give advice."

This would be the best option for me. I don't think mine does, though.

All in all, what I'm unhappy with is the lack of transparency in pricing and the reliance on "building a good relationship" with people to get good service. I hope my viewpoint is not offensive to some, but I much prefer to have a strictly impersonal relationship with businesses. Yes, it's nice when you go to a local restaurant and they know you, greet you and show you to a nice table. But I'd happily let that drop for more transparency in pricing and being able to purchase exactly those items/services which I require. Really, I don't want to build relationships when I go to a shop, I just want to buy the stuff/service I need at the lowest price possible. It's a bit of a cynical attitude I guess.

You could always just phone them up and ask how much a service might cost if you aren't keen on discussing such things face to face?
That said my LBS has a price list for the most common servicing needs on their website

 

[matticus]

3) "We need them, so we need to support them."

I don't need them because I can do most maintenance.

Surely you see a little irony in this reply, given the thread you started!

 

[Lookrider]

I understand your concerns about causing controversy etc
We ride bikes ( we not lawyers) so unfortunately when you type stuff that's not too meaningful...you get scrutinised for ever by all who read it

In your original post you said you would ne happy to pay a fees to loan tools and do it yourself ...that's fair enough

I think wilkes offered too sell the tools for £20?
So why do you not take him up on that
Do the job yourself
Sell them tools for £15
Then in essence you have loaned them tools for £5 ...you may even get more than 15 for them

Now I know you have answered his offer
But that answer does not relate to your first post

And I hope I'm not being offensive to you as my grammar is not always solicited english

I'm sure you get the job done in the end

 

[Smokin Joe]

Anyone thinking of opening a bike shop and then reading this thread would bin the idea straight away. If you want these shops to be there when you need them then you have to accept they need to make a decent living. If you are not prepared to pay them enough to do that, buy the tools and do it yourself.

 

[Deleted member 121159]

Surely you see a little irony in this reply, given the thread you started!

Haha yes. What I mean is that I could do them, not that I always have the time to or the right tools. In other words, it wouldn't be a disaster for me if physical bike shops disappeared. I'd just have to buy all the tools.

 

[fossyant]

If you've got BB30, you'll need the ruddy tools often

A LBS can't on-line price match what you can order on-line, nor does the car garage down the road. If you aren't prepared to pay, DIY then.

 

[Deleted member 121159]

Anyone thinking of opening a bike shop and then reading this thread would bin the idea straight away. If you want these shops to be there when you need them then you have to accept they need to make a decent living. If you are not prepared to pay them enough to do that, buy the tools and do it yourself.

I think someone thinking of opening a bike shop reading this might actually realise that customers' attitude may be different now from 15 or 20 years ago. I don't believe my action or inaction will have any impact whatsoever on the survival of physical shopfronts of any kind. But I don't think my attitude is an isolated case. Given the abundance of information online and their easy accessibility, I expect lots of people will feel tempted to do bike repairs themselves rather than rely on bike shops. So they have to respond to this new social situation in some way. If they can't then their eventual demise will be unavoidable. Of course, I may be totally wrong in my analysis and perhaps many more people feel that they are ready to pay more to keep physical shops alive.

 

[marzjennings]

Over the last 20 years I've built up a reasonable relationship with my LBS through regular visits and bribery (the odd crate of beer at Christmas). Service is good, I often get a 15% discount on stuff, and more free water bottles than I'm ever going to need. I'm also in the lucky situation to know how to fix almost everything on a bike and have all the tools, yet I still go in and pay them for almost all repairs. The number one reason I still pay for repairs is farkupary, especially farkupary on my part. More specifically when I screw up a repair it costs me more money and time, and if they screw up, well it's on them to fix it without any extra cost to me. Two recent examples are over tightening a replacement spoke in a carbon rim which pulled the nipple through the rim. That cost me a whole new rim. And the other example was when I was replacing a hydraulic brake line and managed to crimp it mid line, requiring I buy a whole a new line and waiting over a week for delivery. The best win for me was when I ordered new forks through the store and had the store fit them. Maybe a 30 minute job at best. They cut the steerer too short and so they had to find a replacement at no extra cost.

 

[Dogtrousers]

If you enjoy doing your own maintenance, go ahead. You will save money in the long term. Yes, this involves buying tools. So buy them. It's quite simple.

If you don't like doing it, or don't trust your skills, then pay someone with the knowledge and experience to do it for you.

But if you want someone else to do the job for you without paying them properly, or to make the investment in tools that you don't want to, and let you benefit - forget it.

Jeez, we're not even talking about something difficult, like reaming and facing, or wheel building. We're talking about changing a BB. Even I can do that.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I think someone thinking of opening a bike shop reading this might actually realise that customers' attitude may be different now from 15 or 20 years ago. I don't believe my action or inaction will have any impact whatsoever on the survival of physical shopfronts of any kind. But I don't think my attitude is an isolated case. Given the abundance of information online and their easy accessibility, I expect lots of people will feel tempted to do bike repairs themselves rather than rely on bike shops. So they have to respond to this new social situation in some way. If they can't then their eventual demise will be unavoidable. Of course, I may be totally wrong in my analysis and perhaps many more people feel that they are ready to pay more to keep physical shops alive.

In many cases the customers attitude is different from 15 or twenty years ago in that they expect a low volume bricks and mortar shop to match the prices of a high volume internet warehouse, which is unrealistic. And that does have an impact on the survival of the LBS. Cycling is more popular than it has been during any time in my life yet there are far fewer bike shops around than there have ever been. The simple fact is that if you want a shop to be there when you need it then you have to pay them enough to ensure they can survive.