Can we talk about running?

[Flying_Monkey]

I ran about 8km today, but I did most of it as intervals - for first 3km, I did 100m sprints followed by about 200m of slow jogging 10 times. Then I did about 3km at a slowly increasing pace, with some variation of the kind of running method (on toes, high-stepping, extending the pull back etc.). Then 5 hill intervals (not quite sure how much it was exactly - I just sprinted up and then jogged down a small hill - probably about 1km total). Then I ran the 1km home. Felt good. I will do this once a week from now on as part of my rotation, gradually increasing the number of hill intervals in particular.

 

[Scruffmonster]

I'm trying not to go too minimal to start, slowly progressing in that direction. It does have the feeling of a fad but I think the concepts are correct, people have to progress slowly though.

So I'm going more minimalist than barefoot - the Kinvaras are excellent, still some good cushioning, but a little narrow toe box for me. The Nike Free Run 2 are my current favourites, though it is with some reluctance as I have an aversion to Nike and their cheesy advertising.

I do wish that people wouldn't use the word fad. This is not a new concept. If everyone watched athletics with a keener eye they'd learn how to run right. Running shoes have been sold for the last 30 years as a form of protection. Big soles, all this b0llocks talk of 'pronation support' and such. It's all nonsense.

Watch an Athletics meet. Any race, any distance, any year you like. You'll see people running with excellent form. Landing soft, minimal contact time, lots of hip extension, forward lean, high cadence.

People nowadays need to apportion a cost to something. 'I'm spending £3500 on a bike to go faster', 'I need more carbon'. The best money you'll ever spend is on developing form and technique. Swimming Coaching, A proper Bike Fit, Running Coaching(*). All will help more than a £500 wetsuit, £10k bike or £250 shoes.

Sorry, it's a bugbear of mine.

With regards to shoes, both the Kinvara and Nike Free's are very soft. If you're still transitioning, try and pick up a pair of Nike Streak XC's. A far more responsive shoe. Maintains cushioning, but lets your foot feel a little more.

* - I do not mean a gait analysis

 

[pubrunner]

I do wish that people wouldn't use the word fad. This is not a new concept. If everyone watched athletics with a keener eye they'd learn how to run right. Running shoes have been sold for the last 30 years as a form of protection. Big soles, all this b0llocks talk of 'pronation support' and such. It's all nonsense.

Watch an Athletics meet. Any race, any distance, any year you like. You'll see people running with excellent form. Landing soft, minimal contact time, lots of hip extension, forward lean, high cadence.

People nowadays need to apportion a cost to something. 'I'm spending £3500 on a bike to go faster', 'I need more carbon'. The best money you'll ever spend is on developing form and technique. Swimming Coaching, A proper Bike Fit, Running Coaching(*). All will help more than a £500 wetsuit, £10k bike or £250 shoes.

Great posting, Scruffmonster !

I read a piece of research recently, which suggested that there is a correlation between expensive running shoes with mega-padding and an increased incidence of injuries.

With regards to shoes, both the Kinvara and Nike Free's are very soft. If you're still transitioning, try and pick up a pair of Nike Streak XC's. A far more responsive shoe. Maintains cushioning, but lets your foot feel a little more.

No need to spend so much - I frequently run in beach or deck shoes; they have a thin, but solid sole, which resist thorns etc., and they are very flexible. My running style has gone back to what it was many years ago, when I was running well.

It must be said though, that any change to 'barefoot running' needs to be done very gradually.

 

[Scruffmonster]

Great posting, Scruffmonster !

I read a piece of research recently, which suggested that there is a correlation between expensive running shoes with mega-padding and an increased incidence of injuries.

No need to spend so much - I frequently run in beach or deck shoes; they have a thin, but solid sole, which resist thorns etc., and they are very flexible. My running style has gone back to what it was many years ago, when I was running well.

It must be said though, that any change to 'barefoot running' needs to be done very gradually.

The funniest thing about the arms race in shoes is that injuries occur less as the shoe wears out. As the EVA breaks down and hardens, the foot begins to get more feedback and generally improves form. But because people never wash their shoes* they get smelly, the shoe shops tell people that shoes only last 500 miles, they buy new ones, feel and feedback is removed again and injuries flare up.

I only recommend the Streak XC as you can pick it up for about $30 (on sale) and it will last north of 1500 miles. It's basically a 3.5mm drop sole and a bit of mesh. After 1500 miles the mesh will get a bit saggy but they're good for 3 years of 50 mile weeks. They're also a lot more breathable than a deck shoe. But I completely understand running in those. Whatever works basically.

This is for anyone that ever believes the pronation sh1t trotted out in running stores...

 

[Pottsy]

I do wish that people wouldn't use the word fad. This is not a new concept. If everyone watched athletics with a keener eye they'd learn how to run right. Running shoes have been sold for the last 30 years as a form of protection. Big soles, all this b0llocks talk of 'pronation support' and such. It's all nonsense.

Watch an Athletics meet. Any race, any distance, any year you like. You'll see people running with excellent form. Landing soft, minimal contact time, lots of hip extension, forward lean, high cadence.

People nowadays need to apportion a cost to something. 'I'm spending £3500 on a bike to go faster', 'I need more carbon'. The best money you'll ever spend is on developing form and technique. Swimming Coaching, A proper Bike Fit, Running Coaching(*). All will help more than a £500 wetsuit, £10k bike or £250 shoes.

Sorry, it's a bugbear of mine.

With regards to shoes, both the Kinvara and Nike Free's are very soft. If you're still transitioning, try and pick up a pair of Nike Streak XC's. A far more responsive shoe. Maintains cushioning, but lets your foot feel a little more.

* - I do not mean a gait analysis

I do agree actually Scruffmonster and my use of the term 'fad' was perhaps a bit flippant. I more meant flavour of the month - it's what the mags, websites, shoe manufacturers etc. are all talking about. As you say, good form and running correctly are the most important elements and always have been.

I completed a day course on Chi-running technique recently and some good instruction and video analysis was very interesting and extremely useful, more so than just buying a new pair of shoes.

Having said that I'll take a look at those Nike Streak XC's.

Anway, tapering this week for me, lots of rest and good food, just a couple of shorts runs and a pilates session. This Sunday I've got my marathon. Wish me luck!

 

[Scruffmonster]

Good Luck dude.

The 'I do wish people wouldnt...' wasn't aimed at you directly. It was at everything you mentioned.

In short;

- A standard running shoe enables you to learn to run the wrong way, and run to 90% of your speed potential.
- A zero drop shoe (and to a lesser extent, shoes with minimal heel-toe offset) helps you to learn to run the right way, and run to 100% of your potential.

Once you learn wrong, you keep it. If enough people do this, the Right way is looked upon as an imposter.

It has NOTHING to do with shoes, and EVERYTHING to do with form. Running correctly puts impact forces into parts of the body that are built for it, tendons & muscles, and takes them away from areas that are not; Heels, Knees & Hips (via a straight overstriding leg). Running Barefoot teaches this lesson in a matter of 30 seconds. But because it seems to be a little bit weird, it's deemed to be wrong. Move the forces of impact to the right places, become more efficient, get injured less, spend more time on your feet, get faster. It's the most simple of virtuous circles.

Anyways, off my soap box. Home time.

 

[pubrunner]

I do agree actually Scruffmonster and my use of the term 'fad' was perhaps a bit flippant. I more meant flavour of the month - it's what the mags, websites, shoe manufacturers etc. are all talking about. As you say, good form and running correctly are the most important elements and always have been.

I completed a day course on Chi-running technique recently and some good instruction and video analysis was very interesting and extremely useful, more so than just buying a new pair of shoes.

Having said that I'll take a look at those Nike Streak XC's.

Anway, tapering this week for me, lots of rest and good food, just a couple of shorts runs and a pilates session. This Sunday I've got my marathon. Wish me luck!

Best of luck, Pottsy - which marathon is it ?

What time are you going for ?

 

[Pottsy]

Best of luck, Pottsy - which marathon is it ?

What time are you going for ?

Cheers for that.

It's The Richmond Park Marathon. Only in its second year and quite a small field, about 400 entries last year I think though I suspect more this year.

Firstly to get the excuses in , it's hilly around Richmond Park (as many cyclists here will acknowledge) and it's mostly on the track around the edge and some grassy stretches - so I'll be happy with something sub-4 hour. I'll be setting off at 9 min/miles to aim to get just under that and picking it up if I feel good still after 18-20 miles.

Fingers crossed for a bright and cool day!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Good luck, Pottsy!

 

[Pottsy]

Well it went pretty well I think. It was mainly off-road and very hilly so I was pleased to just get under my aimed 4 hour time with a 3:56. There were a lot of people who hadn't run there before struggling towards the end.

My legs are feeling surprisingly ok today, no major niggles, just a little bit of DOMS but nothing major. I'm treating myself to a sports massage later in the week which should help loosen then up.

So I'll have a break from the long distances now for the summer. I've entered a 10k in August so I can concentrate now on some speed work - tempo and interval runs.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Excellent - well done!

 

[fimm]

Well done Pottsy!

Nothing much to report from me - I didn't run for a month after the marathon (!) I'd intended to have a bit of a break and then a couple of planned easy runs didn't happen for one reason or another. Getting back into running was a bit difficult to start with, but I'm enjoying it again now. I am hoping that I don't have to run the last 20 miles of the WHW with my boyfriend, though, as I think that would hurt.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

31.53 for my 8k race yesterday. It is 30 seconds faster than I did the same race last year, but I was hoping for much better (between 30 and 31 minutes). However, I seem to have some kind of virus, so that could explain the slightly sluggish performance.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

My local 10k today. It's actually more than 10k and it's hilly and hot. 42 minutes had me 5th and 1st in my age group. But I did the ligaments in my right knee (long-term problem). Won't be running for a couple of weeks.

 

[fimm]

Oh, well done on the time and position (more relevant with a tough course), and bad luck on the injury!