Cars overtaking when you're turning right

[Array]

Hi. 1st Post. Got here trying to find tips for how to overcome drivers overtaking as I try to turn right. I'm finding that even though I signal clearly and pull out carefully there always seem to be cars that suddenly speed up behind me and overtake as I try to turn right on the road. They don't seem to want to wait a second for me to cross.

Also I often get people undertaking vary fast when I'm not all the way into the middle to turn right and forcing me out into the road almost into the oncoming traffic.

I have bought a hi-viz armband which I wear on my right arm so I am clearly visible when indicating. I also wear a hi-viz vest and helmet with hi-viz strip on the back and have 5 bright lights on my bike and often have a child seat covered in hi-viz stickers on the back too. I signal clearly and allow plenty of time and space to make my manouvre. Even so, and even in broad daylight people still seem to overtake as I'm pulling right, even when I am looking straight at them!

The worst case was a near miss yesterday as two cars in quick succession did it while I had my son (1.5 years old) on the back.

PS. I live in Bristol which has recently been awarded "Cycling City" status, but I'll save the punchlines to that joke for another time.

Any tips on how to safely pull out and stop people putting their foot down to get around you greatly appreciated.

 

[HLaB]

Being assertive, making a gradual movement early, making eye contact and judging when and when not to filter in adjusting my pace to sit conditions (sometimes its easier to tuck in behind someone who refuses to make eye contact) seems to work for me. What also helps is I tend to make most right turns at traffic lights and they make it easier to judge things.

 

[yello]

Welcome Array. It sounds to me like you're doing everything right. Sadly, nobody can control what others will do.

I've obviously not seen you ride but I would also suggest being assertive. That means being confident about where you are, owning your space and making strong/bold/confident signals. Make it obvious that you are going to turn, give frequent shoulder checks before signalling and make that arm signal a real statement. Imo, the shoulder checks are as important, if not more so, than the signal itself.

How far from the gutter/kurb are you before you make your signal? You might want to consider being a bit further out, about a metre out in what's called the secondary position (the primary position is further out still, around 1m from the centre line). You'd want to move to the primary position well before you turn. You're less likely to be overtaken if you are further out, ime.

Here's something that might be of interest....

When should you signal and pull over to the centre of the road to make a right turn, and how should you position yourself?

From about 100m (330ft) before the right turn, keep a track of what following vehicles are doing by looking round at regular intervals (a mirror, if you have one, is particularly useful in this situation but shouldn't be used as a replacement for looking around). You should be looking to move into a suitable gap in the traffic from about 50m (160ft) before the turn. Once you have safely identified a gap and signalled right, you should move smoothly but quickly to a position about 1m (3ft) from the centre line. Keep a close eye on oncoming traffic and be prepared to increase this distance if it comes too close to you.

If you are turning right with other motor traffic, position yourself just to the left of the centre line of the traffic. However, if there is a right turn lane you should 'take the lane' (adopt the primary riding position). In very busy traffic, where you have difficulty finding a gap, it is perfectly acceptable - and may well be the safest course of action - to pull into the kerb in order to wait for such a gap. Once you've turned right you should also initially 'take the lane' to avoid being passed - either on your outside or inside. It's then a matter of either maintaining the primary road position or adopting the secondary position nearer the kerb; which you should do depending on road conditions.

From http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/technique-road-positioning-197

 

[thomas]

I've obviously not seen you ride but I would also suggest being assertive. That means being confident about where you are, owning your space and making strong/bold/confident signals. Make it obvious that you are going to turn, give frequent shoulder checks before signalling and make that arm signal a real statement. Imo, the shoulder checks are as important, if not more so, than the signal itself.

Completely agree with yello. A women once gave me a "what??" type gesture as I looked over my shoulder to see what was behind me as if I shouldn't look behind me as I cycle (I wasn't going to be turning), so it obviously makes people think. I think shoulder checks are important as it just makes it more obvious that you are planning on signalling.

Make sure that your signals are good and obvious, no sort of pointing down at the floor as if you're embarrassed (doesn't sound like you are, but I do see it).

And maybe take a better road position. If you're confident with your signals, be confident with your bike, move a little further out and kind of control the traffic a bit more.

You're always going to get idiots, so don't let it put you off!

 

[Array]

Thanks for all the responses!

The shoulder check thing is a great point. I usually just check a couple of times as needed but I'll try over emphasising it and see if it helps.

It can be difficult pivoting around a lot with the added weight of a child seat though. Having my little boy on board also makes me extra apprehensive and probably less assertive. When I'm on my own I do tend to claim my space on the road better.

I'm quite positive with my signals too. I was considering a drop down flag from under my arm with the words "I really am turning right!" written on it. Not sure everyone would take it with the humour intended though.

Thanks for suggestions. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Joe24]

When im turning right, i look behind, put my arm out and keep checking behind. If i have cars coming past while im signaling, i start to move my arm and start to ride looking back looking at the driver thats about to overtake me, while sort of moving out.
The waving of the arm, the eye contact and me sort of going, "nob head cant you see im wanting to turn right" makes the driver slow down and let me move over more.

 

[MacB]

yep, more looks the better, I found it hard at first, bike control thing, but ok now. It can also stop people doing a stupid overtake, seems nonsensical. I look round and meet the eye of a car driver just pulling out, they then pull back in and wait until safer to pass. It's almost childlike behaviour, they'll overtake but not if you've seen them.

The right turn can be a problem, I normally try to get out early but have experienced some crazy driving. I had one girl cross into oncoming traffic to overtake me. Also had the undertaking bit before I'm out of the way. I'm sort of learning to spot driver types and will deliberately slow to let some cars get out of the way.

 

[cheadle hulme]

Try a mirror, gives advance warning of whats going on behind without giving the game away. when you do decide to change lane position (and its safe to do so), do it forcefully, not gradually. Swerve if necessary, but make sure your change is noted and deemed to be intentional.
Hold your line to the junction. Gets easier the fitter and faster you are.

 

[Array]

Try a mirror, gives advance warning of whats going on behind without giving the game away. when you do decide to change lane position (and its safe to do so), do it forcefully, not gradually. Swerve if necessary, but make sure your change is noted and deemed to be intentional.
Hold your line to the junction. Gets easier the fitter and faster you are.

Thanks. I'm fairly fit and fast on my own. Problem comes with the extra weight and responsibility of the child seat and child. I don't do swerving with my son on board.

 

[cheadle hulme]

Thanks. I'm fairly fit and fast on my own. Problem comes with the extra weight and responsibility of the child seat and child. I don't do swerving with my son on board.

Apologies - missed your middle post.

 

[summerdays]

Welcome... I've seen cars overtake even kids turning right in Bristol, and experienced it myself. I think lots of looking over your shoulder helps... if they are an idiot they won't let you out anyway and if nice they will hold back and kind of shield you. But you can't stop all the idiots ...

If its one particular junction is there an alternative route that could avoid it?

 

[sheddy]

"I was considering a drop down flag from under my arm with the words "I really am turning right!" written on it"
Like it ! - who's gonna trial this ?

 

[the reluctant cyclist]

I used to have this trouble and I would say that looking behind a lot really really helps.

Personally I always point as well as sticking my arm out - I stick it way out too really over the top gesture - then I look behind LOADS - this usually does the trick and the driver will gesture to me it's okay to pull to the right - I ALWAYS do my thumbs up sign to say thanks and if they don't gesture me to pull over I do my thumbs up sign anyway because it indicates to them that you are now going to do your maneouver.

I have to say though that there have been times when I have just pulled over and waited - it's not worth arguing with a car really!

I am with you on the difference having a little one on the back makes - I used to find my balance altered a lot when I had my daughter on the back - little ones tend to be a bit wiggly too!!!

 

[thomas]

Personally I always point as well as sticking my arm out - I stick it way out too really over the top gesture - then I look behind LOADS - this usually does the trick and the driver will gesture to me it's okay to pull to the right - I ALWAYS do my thumbs up sign to say thanks and if they don't gesture me to pull over I do my thumbs up sign anyway because it indicates to them that you are now going to do your maneouver.

I'll do thumbs up when I need to get into another lane and I'm let in - makes people see you're not some dappy ped on a bike.

 

[the reluctant cyclist]

Yup I definately try and "humanise" myself as much as I can - lots of looks a and waves smiles thumbs up and the like - helps to make people realise you are a real person and not just an obstacle in their way...

.... of course not 100% fool proof but there you go!!!