Cashless society......problem for many.

[PaulSB]

Good evening,

I expect a court case soon, in England there is the concept of legal tender something that must be accepted as payment of debt. Yet I went past a Yo Sushi today and towards the bottom of a long list of COVID inspired restrictions was we are cashless.

So if a customer goes into a restaurant and has a meal and at the end offers some grubby used (one oohps showing my age) ten pound notes what does the restaurant do.

1. They have no signs at all but they only accept card payments. Surely no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
2. They have some signs saying we only accept card payments but a genuine good faith customer missed those signs. Surely again no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
3. They have signs saying we only accept card payments which were seen by the good faith customer and the serving staff explained that card payment was the only acceptable form of payment before the order was taken. The customer decided expletive deleted there is no way that the site and the staff can override legal tender laws so I am paying cash.

Whilst in general retail establishments do not have an obligation to sell to anyone they can not refuses to sell based on criteria such as skin colour or sexual orientation. So it would seem likely to me that to deny service to a potential customer who wants to pay by cash would fall into to same category as denying service based on a proscribed view on race or preferred partner.

Bye

Ian

Could you explain why please.

I cannot see there is any obligation to accept a particular method of payment, in this instance cash.

Paying by card is exchanging coin of the realm for goods. A cashless business is still accepting the currency just in a different format.

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

I haven’t used cash since the start of the epidemic. I pay for everything on plastic, sometimes via the phone. The only issue has been the occasional small shop that requires a minimum £5 spend, they blame this on bank charges. But my LBS tells me that banks charge businesses even to pay in cash so they have to pay either way.

 

[Ian H]

Yes, could be. Never tested it, but, I believe Germany (and Austria) also have an aversion to DashCams.

And Google Streetview, if I remember correctly.

 

[oldwheels]

I haven’t used cash since the start of the epidemic. I pay for everything on plastic, sometimes via the phone. The only issue has been the occasional small shop that requires a minimum £5 spend, they blame this on bank charges. But my LBS tells me that banks charge businesses even to pay in cash so they have to pay either way.

Banks certainly charge for paying in money and also for giving small change for the till. My info is of of date now but there was a charge of 25p on all debit card transactions but a percentage on credit cards. The percentage was based on how much they thought they could screw you for and how hard you fought back.
We managed a reduction by discouraging credit cards so very low turnover but as soon as they though we had forgotten they switched it back up. Probably illegal but we put a discount on debit card and cash transactions.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Just listening to a radio phone in.
The guy was saying that he enjoys the theatre.
He has received a message to say......
1. The theatre is now completely cash free
2. He must order tickets on line.
3. He must show the downloaded tickets
on his smart phone OR print them off.
Problem being he doesn't have a smart phone or a printer.

This problem must be duplicated many times.

Was that @Drago?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I was at a local pub last weekend. Two older cyclists at next table had gone in to order their pints. Pub only took cards, they only had cash. I had wandered in at this point to order our drinks. After discussion I agreed to pay for their pints by card and they’d give me the cash.

Yep, definitely a problem.

 

[Cerdic]

Good evening,

I expect a court case soon, in England there is the concept of legal tender something that must be accepted as payment of debt. Yet I went past a Yo Sushi today and towards the bottom of a long list of COVID inspired restrictions was we are cashless.

So if a customer goes into a restaurant and has a meal and at the end offers some grubby used (one oohps showing my age) ten pound notes what does the restaurant do.

1. They have no signs at all but they only accept card payments. Surely no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
2. They have some signs saying we only accept card payments but a genuine good faith customer missed those signs. Surely again no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
3. They have signs saying we only accept card payments which were seen by the good faith customer and the serving staff explained that card payment was the only acceptable form of payment before the order was taken. The customer decided expletive deleted there is no way that the site and the staff can override legal tender laws so I am paying cash.

Whilst in general retail establishments do not have an obligation to sell to anyone they can not refuses to sell based on criteria such as skin colour or sexual orientation. So it would seem likely to me that to deny service to a potential customer who wants to pay by cash would fall into to same category as denying service based on a proscribed view on race or preferred partner.

Bye

Ian

Ah, a common misconception! See this straight from the horse's mouth (the Bank of England)...

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

 

[cougie uk]

Good evening,

I expect a court case soon, in England there is the concept of legal tender something that must be accepted as payment of debt. Yet I went past a Yo Sushi today and towards the bottom of a long list of COVID inspired restrictions was we are cashless.

So if a customer goes into a restaurant and has a meal and at the end offers some grubby used (one oohps showing my age) ten pound notes what does the restaurant do.

1. They have no signs at all but they only accept card payments. Surely no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
2. They have some signs saying we only accept card payments but a genuine good faith customer missed those signs. Surely again no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
3. They have signs saying we only accept card payments which were seen by the good faith customer and the serving staff explained that card payment was the only acceptable form of payment before the order was taken. The customer decided expletive deleted there is no way that the site and the staff can override legal tender laws so I am paying cash.

Whilst in general retail establishments do not have an obligation to sell to anyone they can not refuses to sell based on criteria such as skin colour or sexual orientation. So it would seem likely to me that to deny service to a potential customer who wants to pay by cash would fall into to same category as denying service based on a proscribed view on race or preferred partner.

Bye

Ian

Er this is rubbish.

Bye.

 

[Alex321]

Good evening,

I expect a court case soon, in England there is the concept of legal tender something that must be accepted as payment of debt. Yet I went past a Yo Sushi today and towards the bottom of a long list of COVID inspired restrictions was we are cashless.

You are clearly under a misapprehension regarding "legal tender" (as are many people).

It has no meaning whatsoever in normal transactions. It only applies to court ordered debts.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

Any retailer can accept (or not accept) whatever forms of payment they prefer.

So if a customer goes into a restaurant and has a meal and at the end offers some grubby used (one oohps showing my age) ten pound notes what does the restaurant do.

1. They have no signs at all but they only accept card payments. Surely no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.

The legal tender laws would not be overridden. They have zero obligation to take cash.

1. They have some signs saying we only accept card payments but a genuine good faith customer missed those signs. Surely again no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.

As above.

1. They have signs saying we only accept card payments which were seen by the good faith customer and the serving staff explained that card payment was the only acceptable form of payment before the order was taken. The customer decided expletive deleted there is no way that the site and the staff can override legal tender laws so I am paying cash.

As above.

Whilst in general retail establishments do not have an obligation to sell to anyone they can not refuses to sell based on criteria such as skin colour or sexual orientation. So it would seem likely to me that to deny service to a potential customer who wants to pay by cash would fall into to same category as denying service based on a proscribed view on race or preferred partner.

Nope.

Those are "protected characteristics" according to the law, and that is why you are not permitted to discriminate on those grounds. Method of payment is not a protected charactreristic.[/quote]

 

[Sharky]

Almost 100% rely on my plastic debit card.
The only exception seems to be for the £5 entry fee for clubs Tuesday evening 10.

 

[Mike Ayling]

Here in OZ CARDS/tap and go usage is high.
Aldi charges a % on tap and go but not if you insert the card and use a pin. They blame the bank charges structure.
Guess which method we use?
When not in lockdown, a frequent occurence here I always tap for a aud$ 4 to aud$5 coffee on my bike rides.
Our local Indian restuarant prefers cash for take aways and blames the bank charges but I suspect that there may be a little tax planning involved as well.

 

[FrankCrank]

Get yourselves over here. We ride around on buffaloes, live in mud huts, and barter down at the local market.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Good evening,

I expect a court case soon, in England there is the concept of legal tender something that must be accepted as payment of debt. Yet I went past a Yo Sushi today and towards the bottom of a long list of COVID inspired restrictions was we are cashless.

So if a customer goes into a restaurant and has a meal and at the end offers some grubby used (one oohps showing my age) ten pound notes what does the restaurant do.

1. They have no signs at all but they only accept card payments. Surely no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
2. They have some signs saying we only accept card payments but a genuine good faith customer missed those signs. Surely again no chance, there is no way to override legal tender laws, they must take cash.
3. They have signs saying we only accept card payments which were seen by the good faith customer and the serving staff explained that card payment was the only acceptable form of payment before the order was taken. The customer decided expletive deleted there is no way that the site and the staff can override legal tender laws so I am paying cash.

Whilst in general retail establishments do not have an obligation to sell to anyone they can not refuses to sell based on criteria such as skin colour or sexual orientation. So it would seem likely to me that to deny service to a potential customer who wants to pay by cash would fall into to same category as denying service based on a proscribed view on race or preferred partner.

Bye

Ian

Topic at hand - preference, convenience for cash or cashless payments. Cash is 100% legal tender.

As far as I know restaurants and eateries accept cash. Supermarkets, retail outlets accept cash. Every mon and pop store accept cash. You can safely say a double digit % of cash transaction will not enter the books for obvious reason. It usually transactions that allows speed and avoid bureaucracy such as public service, corporate world that prefer cashless payment etc.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Here in OZ CARDS/tap and go usage is high.
Aldi charges a % on tap and go but not if you insert the card and use a pin. They blame the bank charges structure.
Guess which method we use?
When not in lockdown, a frequent occurence here I always tap for a aud$ 4 to aud$5 coffee on my bike rides.
Our local Indian restuarant prefers cash for take aways and blames the bank charges but I suspect that there may be a little tax planning involved as well.

Tap and tap without phone is a higher bank fee. Apply and Samsung also take a cut from the Bank for the phone service Most companies don't nickel and dime a customer to death with these difference. They just add the cost to the product price.

 

[Andy in Germany]

same reason there is very little CCTV

Yes, could be. Never tested it, but, I believe Germany (and Austria) also have an aversion to DashCams.

This is mostly because of the privacy rules in the German Constitution that effectively say you have copyright over your own face. CCTV is therefore mostly banned in public spaces because it means storing images of people's faces.