Cheap, innit?

[Ravenbait]

Come on Sam, that's a false dichotomy. Not long ago, I sold a Fiesta for £1300. It did 45-50 mpg and very little in repairs and maintenance.

Good for you. A vehicle like that was not something I was able to find when my last car had a terminal MOT failure and I had all of 2 weeks to replace it.

Generally speaking - public servants either get an "essential user" allowance plus a fuel allowance, or they get paid at the standard rate (about 45p/ mile IIRC). That should be enough to cover your expenses. If you're not getting either, then that's a tough one, but I would suggest it's atypical.

I get the 45p/mile. It doesn't cover the expense of owning a car when you consider that I wouldn't have one at all if I were not required to by my job.

I'm not sure where you get the false dichotomy from. I'm suggesting that not everyone is in a position to make the cheapest choices. I'm not the one saying that anyone complaining about the price of fuel should shut up about it because it's quite cheap, really.

Sam

 

[Ravenbait]

Ah - typical public servent response...

So far removed from the money, that the word "expenses" could be replaced with "widgets" or "multicoloured mung beans", for all the relevence to actual money it implies.

Not sure who you're having a dig at here, Smeggers.

Sam

 

[theclaud]

Not sure who you're having a dig at here, Smeggers.

Sam

I think it was aimed at User482.

 

[John the Monkey]

Besides, I'm working on a new concept. I call it Pervasive P&L.

OH LORD NO.

 

[theclaud]

OH LORD NO.

Politics, like Life and Narrative, is everywhere, John. You can't contain or suppress it.

Not sure which smiley to choose:

or or perhaps

 

[John the Monkey]

Not sure which smiley to choose:

or or perhaps

The Devilly one. FOR SURE.

 

[theclaud]

The Devilly one. FOR SURE.

Definitely time for this one now then:

You have a sig line that is all about politics and ideas. I'd have thought Pervasive P&L might be right up your street!

 

[User482]

Good for you. A vehicle like that was not something I was able to find when my last car had a terminal MOT failure and I had all of 2 weeks to replace it.



I get the 45p/mile. It doesn't cover the expense of owning a car when you consider that I wouldn't have one at all if I were not required to by my job.

I'm not sure where you get the false dichotomy from. I'm suggesting that not everyone is in a position to make the cheapest choices. I'm not the one saying that anyone complaining about the price of fuel should shut up about it because it's quite cheap, really.

Sam

You couldn't find a cheap fiesta? They're not exactly uncommon.

So do you only use your car for your business travel, and never for any other purpose? I find it unlikely that you derive no other benefits.

Anyway, some numbers.

5,000 business miles at 0.45p = £2,250.

Less fuel (assume 40mpg) = £750
Less insurance say £400
Less servicing say £300
Less VED say £150
Total cost £1600

So that's £650 each year towards depreciation and replacement. That doesn't seem too bad to me.

 

[User482]

I think it was aimed at User482.

Having just told him how much something cost, he suggested that I was far removed from money. Looks like we've got Grumpy Smeggers today...

 

[snailracer]

The real cost of motoring in the UK has been falling continuously since the 1960's. The real cost of train travel has also been falling, though not as rapidly as that of motoring. Google the Office of National Statistics if you don't believe me.

 

[User482]

The real cost of motoring in the UK has been falling continuously since the 1960's. The real cost of train travel has also been falling, though not as rapidly as that of motoring. Google the Office of National Statistics if you don't believe me.

A quick google tells me you are right about cars, and wrong about trains.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/articles/train-journeys-from-hell-facts

 

[Ravenbait]

So do you only use your car for your business travel, and never for any other purpose? I find it unlikely that you derive no other benefits.

Of course I use it for other purposes. But as little as possible. Little enough that I'd be perfectly happy hiring a car for those odd occasions, or being a member of the City Car Club.

5,000 business miles at 0.45p = £2,250.

That's pre-tax. I get taxed on my expenses.

Less fuel (assume 40mpg) = £750
Less insurance say £400
Less servicing say £300
Less VED say £150
Total cost £1600

So that's £650 each year towards depreciation and replacement. That doesn't seem too bad to me.

Your assumptions are conservative. I can assure you it costs more than that.

I'm not running some massive SUV gas guzzler, nor am I driving 3 miles to the shops. Today I was fairly certain I was going to be in the office all day so I left the car at home. We shop by bike or on foot. When we travel distances we book in advance and take the train.

My point was that it is possible to do the best you can to conserve your car use and still find the cost difficult to meet. If you can't accept that point, then there's nothing further to discuss.

Sam

 

[User482]

Of course I use it for other purposes. But as little as possible. Little enough that I'd be perfectly happy hiring a car for those odd occasions, or being a member of the City Car Club.

Hiring a car costs money. That should be set against your costs of ownership.

That's pre-tax. I get taxed on my expenses.

You shouldn't be. 45p is the Revenue approved rate: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/travel.htm

Your assumptions are conservative. I can assure you it costs more than that.

Hence my point about running a cheap Fiesta. Having done so, I can assure you that my figures are really quite generous.

I'm not running some massive SUV gas guzzler, nor am I driving 3 miles to the shops. Today I was fairly certain I was going to be in the office all day so I left the car at home. We shop by bike or on foot. When we travel distances we book in advance and take the train.

My point was that it is possible to do the best you can to conserve your car use and still find the cost difficult to meet. If you can't accept that point, then there's nothing further to discuss.

I'm perfectly prepared to accept that you find the cost difficult to meet. But that doesn't mean that you are not adequately reimbursed.

 

[Ravenbait]

Do you mean your expenses are put back into your gross pay and PAYE taxed 22% / 40%?

Yes. I understood that to mean they were part of the taxable amount.

Sam

 

[User482]

Aye - I see User482 has fallen straight into the assumption trap though ^

I made the point that she shouldn't be taxed, not that she isn't being taxed. If you have any suggestions on how this can be rectified, that would be rather more constructive than this silly sniping.