Cheap Vs Expensive

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youngoldbloke

youngoldbloke

The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
"So far about 600 + miles, I have no idea what it did in its 18 years or so life before me." Quote from your earlier post, PA.
You seem to have fitted a hell of a lot into those 600 miles - 47mph, KOM sprints, descents, running out of gears - I don't know why your'e looking for another bike, sounds like you should be unbeatable on that one :bravo:.
 
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OP
Peter Armstrong

Peter Armstrong

Über Member
youngoldbloke said:
"So far about 600 + miles, I have no idea what it did in its 18 years or so life before me." Quote from your earlier post, PA.
You seem to have fitted a hell of a lot into those 600 miles - 47mph, KOM sprints, descents, running out of gears - I don't know why your'e looking for another bike, sounds like you should be unbeatable on that one :bravo:.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, well, what can i say............
 
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OP
Peter Armstrong

Peter Armstrong

Über Member
Thing is, im not comfortable on this bike, not positioning, I mean I dont feel like me and my bike are "one". It creeks, and grinds, and the pedals wobbly, the brakes squeek, and it heavy! so I struggle up hills.I can feel its not smooth in the cranks, I could spend more money changing aload of parts but I think it will be better to just get a new one. I wanna keep the 52t I already have, not losing high end gears when buy a new one. I dont wanna be slower on my runs because my new bike dont have the gears.
 
Rob3rt

Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
Peter Armstrong said:
Thing is, im not comfortable on this bike, not positioning, I mean I dont feel like me and my bike are "one". It creeks, and grinds, and the pedals wobbly, the brakes squeek, and it heavy! so I struggle up hills.I can feel its not smooth in the cranks, I could spend more money changing aload of parts but I think it will be better to just get a new one. I wanna keep the 52t I already have, not losing high end gears when buy a new one. I dont wanna be slower on my runs because my new bike dont have the gears.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point! At least it seems to me you are. If you want to improve your average speed (top end speed is a different matter we can discuss that next), then you need to maintain higher speeds for longer period. This means less slowing for hills, faster flat speeds, possibly at the expense of a bit of top end speed on descents and sprints. You can easily see this for yourself. Sprint up to 30mph then stop at a traffic light, or drop to a cruising speed and watch the average drop on your computer! It doesn't take much riding below the high speeds to see the average crippled. You need to maintain high pace rather than yo-yo between sprints and then pootling at 15mph to get high average speeds and fast times over a certain distance. If you yo-yo all you do is have a few spikes of speed and then a lower than normal cruising speed because you are tired from the sprints.

As for top end speed, how often do you actually use the hardest gear at the rear? Especially in the small ring where the difference between a compact and double is most evident (hopefully nearly never)! as for the big ring, 4T on the front cog has less effect than 1 tooth at the rear, so going from 52T to 50T will not manifest itself very obviously even for top end sprinting for the normal rider.

4 tooth difference in chainring example
54:11 = 129 gear inches
50:11=119.5 gear inches

Difference = 9.5 inches

1 tooth difference in smallest gear on cassette example
54:11 = 129 gear inches
54:10 = 141.9 gear inches

Difference = 12.9 inches.

Switching your 52T for a 50T will lose you only 5.8 gear inches.
 
PpPete

PpPete

Legendary Member
Location
Chandler's Ford
Best plan might be to get a new bike with a 50/34 compact. Ride it. If you really spin out the the 50:11 at 135rpm (47 mph) then change the chainset or even just the rings to a 53/39 (and get a Racing Licence). You might need to move the FD up a bit and get a longer chain, but it's all simple stuff.
I like going downhill fast as much as the next guy, but beyond about 40 mph (125 rpm on my 53:13 top end) there really is no point pedalling any more.
As Rob3rt says.... far better to focus on keeping the speed high, staying aero as much a possible, getting the right line through bends, accelerating efficiently away from traffic lights and so on.
 
GrasB

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
Peter Armstrong said:
Thing is, im not comfortable on this bike, not positioning, I mean I dont feel like me and my bike are "one". It creeks, and grinds, and the pedals wobbly, the brakes squeek, and it heavy! so I struggle up hills.I can feel its not smooth in the cranks, I could spend more money changing aload of parts but I think it will be better to just get a new one. I wanna keep the 52t I already have, not losing high end gears when buy a new one. I dont wanna be slower on my runs because my new bike dont have the gears.
Click to expand...
Where do you gain the most time?... on a theoretical 500m slope this is the difference that an extra 400w or so makes going down/up:
75km/h = 24s
80km/h = 22.5s

20km/h = 90s
25km/h = 72s

It'll be a lot easier to make those extra 400W at 100 rpm than 50 rpm.
 
Andrew_Culture

Andrew_Culture

Internet Marketing bod
Location
The People's Republic Of Suffolk.
GrasB said:
Assuming a high power cadence range of 95-135rpm in the nice tight range of an 11-23 cassette, 13-17t sprockets, we get the following speeds:
50t = 21.8-40.5mph
53t = 23.1-42.9mph
56t = 24.4-45.4mph
59t = 25.7-47.8mph

You should be able to high the high 140rpm for short perods but 135rpm is about what most people top out at for sustained periods. That's 47.9mph on 50/11, 53/11 50.7mph, 56/11 53.6mph & 59/11 is 56.5mph, from about 50mph looking to need about 600-800w to beat the aerodynamic disadvantage of peddling v's being in an aero position that you physically can't pedal in.
Click to expand...

Most useful post I've read for a while!
 
Andrew_Culture

Andrew_Culture

Internet Marketing bod
Location
The People's Republic Of Suffolk.
Rob3rt said:
You are missing the point! At least it seems to me you are. If you want to improve your average speed (top end speed is a different matter we can discuss that next), then you need to maintain higher speeds for longer period. This means less slowing for hills, faster flat speeds, possibly at the expense of a bit of top end speed on descents and sprints. You can easily see this for yourself. Sprint up to 30mph then stop at a traffic light, or drop to a cruising speed and watch the average drop on your computer! It doesn't take much riding below the high speeds to see the average crippled. You need to maintain high pace rather than yo-yo between sprints and then pootling at 15mph to get high average speeds and fast times over a certain distance. If you yo-yo all you do is have a few spikes of speed and then a lower than normal cruising speed because you are tired from the sprints.

As for top end speed, how often do you actually use the hardest gear at the rear? Especially in the small ring where the difference between a compact and double is most evident (hopefully nearly never)! as for the big ring, 4T on the front cog has less effect than 1 tooth at the rear, so going from 52T to 50T will not manifest itself very obviously even for top end sprinting for the normal rider.

4 tooth difference in chainring example
54:11 = 129 gear inches
50:11=119.5 gear inches

Difference = 9.5 inches

1 tooth difference in smallest gear on cassette example
54:11 = 129 gear inches
54:10 = 141.9 gear inches

Difference = 12.9 inches.

Switching your 52T for a 50T will lose you only 5.8 gear inches.
Click to expand...

Again, brilliant. I'm about to pick up a used bike with a 52t on the front, but the next bike I won't make such a fuss about getting 52t.
 
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OP
Peter Armstrong

Peter Armstrong

Über Member
Just been out, I maxed 49.9mph on a decent, yes I had to pedal on the decent to reach that , I couldnt reach that just in an aero position alone. Up hills I struggle, My low gears arnt low enough.

I Still switching my mind between, getting a new cassette with a bigger range and keep upgrading with cheap parts or save and get a new bike, Cheap £500 or expensive £1000 I still dont know
 
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