Close Contact Self Isolation

[Slick]

Curiously, I find John’s assessment is pretty reasonable for many large organisations.....
My boss confirms it frequently (he is a rare breed who enjoys the “doing” more than the “managing”, but commands much respect from his team and gets things done that need doing!)

Pretty much my own preferred style because of my background.

 

[Slick]

My old guvnor who retired after 37 years in April was brilliant, and everyone gave him 110% effort as a mark of respect. His replacement is tolerable, but not in the same league. He just gets the bare bones amount of commitment, and nothing more than that. Some of the managers who are really disliked, couldn't get their staff to piss on them if they were on fire. Total lack of employee engagement.

I have far too much respect for myself and my own contribution to only give the minimum bare bones commitment. Every man to his own though.

 

[lane]

If you are not one already why not become a manager so that you can show others how it should be done.

At my level in my more specialist role in my sector I don't get to make those decisions. I'm more interested in retirement now than chasing promotion - done all that and it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

 

[Pale Rider]

A phrase that applies in my place is: "Success has many parents, but failure is always an orphan."

In other words, if something goes well, lots of people are scrabbling around to claim credit, but if it messes up, those same people are nowhere to be seen.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Your either in the wrong job or doing it wrong

I've been doing my job longer than some of the latest crop of wannabee managers have been on this earth. Given the right motivation from decent management, I get a lot done and solve problems myself rather than dump them in the managers lap to deal with.. Without that motivation, I just show up, go through the motions, and collect my wages at the end of the month. Same goes for several long-serving colleagues. Attitude now is let the managers get on with it, they think they know best - but they actually know nothing. They're the ones getting stressed and putting in 70 hour weeks for no extra pay, not us.

I have far too much respect for myself and my own contribution to only give the minimum bare bones commitment. Every man to his own though.

Boils down to motivation and getting recognition of what you do. My old manager only became one by accident after he had his arm twisted to cover a vacant manager post "temporarily" over 15 years ago. He was good at his job when on the tools and he appreciated the effort people put in to get things done, because he'd been there himself. My old manager's opinion of me and my colleagues mattered because we respected him, so we made the effort. We don't give a fig now what the useless managers think of us, because they couldn't even do our jobs, whereas the old manager could and had done.

 

[DRM]

Your either in the wrong job or doing it wrong but either way we are all just a product of our own experiences and it's as far removed from mine as is possible.

Why am I doing it wrong, I have more than enough experience & the skills to do my job, we don’t rely on management as we are quite capable of thinking out of the box in order to get things done, all the staff on the road help each other out, whereas those in charge don’t know one end of a spanner from the other.
they have never done the job, and can’t do our job, we are thought of as being beneath those in shirts & ties, yet it’s the blokes on the tools that bring in the profits.

 

[Badger_Boom]

...they have never done the job, and can’t do our job...

That’s not what they’re there for; the fact that they may be useless at their job is a different matter.

 

[DRM]

That’s not what they’re there for; the fact that they may be useless at their job is a different matter.

But how can they tell staff what to do, when they have absolutely no grasp of what staff on the coal face have to contend with, once upon a time the older, more experienced staff were promoted and had the experience and skills to help out properly, now they surround themselves with yes men, regardless of ability.
Managing an office or a shop and the staff is nothing like managing a team of skilled field engineers.

 

[Badger_Boom]

But how can they tell staff what to do, when they have absolutely no grasp of what staff on the coal face have to contend with, once upon a time the older, more experienced staff were promoted and had the experience and skills to help out properly, now they surround themselves with yes men, regardless of ability

I work in a field where one of the biggest problems is that it’s run by managers who’ve largely come from working on the tools, but have little to no experience of or training in ‘management‘. They understand how the job is done at the front line, but not how to make best use of their workforce, or even worse how to keep it busy and we’ll paid.

 

[lane]

Whatever you manage its better if you have some idea of even better experience of the context in my opinion - if you are managed by someone in an ivory tower it can make life harder

 

[screenman]

At my level in my more specialist role in my sector I don't get to make those decisions. I'm more interested in retirement now than chasing promotion - done all that and it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

Funny how people who are not have been managers or business owners think it is easy.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

That’s not what they’re there for; the fact that they may be useless at their job is a different matter.

It matters a lot in terms of having credibility, earning respect, and having their authority to tell people what to do accepted. Managers who are not well respected will never get anything more than the barest of bare minimums out of the people they are supposedly in charge of. Being a manager is not a profession in it's own right, to be considered legitimate you need not only management skills, but a working knowledge of the type of job that you are supposed to be managing. You can't just parachute into a field you know nothing about, then start to tell the people who do know what they are doing, how to do their jobs! Having a degree and a shirt and ties, but no real hands-on experience just doesn't cut the mustard I'm afraid.

 

[Brandane]

I liked the Merchant Navy way of doing things. "Never ask someone to do something that you haven't done yourself."
My next job, in public service was somewhat different. There was even talk of them recruiting people from other walks of life into management posts at one point. I don't think that ever happened, thankfully.

 

[lane]

Funny how people who are not have been managers or business owners think it is easy.

Yeah well if you can quote the bit about where I said it was easy that will be great. Been a manger of some sort for the majority of my nearly 40 year working like also sometimes with a lot of H & S responsibility. It's not easy but just because it's hard didn't mean you have a right as a manager to ignore the health and safety of your workers. How many people do you manage I thought you are self employed.

 

[Pale Rider]

Being a manager is not a profession in its own right,

That is a debatable contention.

At the highest level, some executives of large plcs move seamlessly from one sector to another.

In other words, they have the talent to run a multi-million pound business, the type of business is largely irrelevant.

Rightly or wrongly, public bodies such as the NHS recruit senior managers from businesses of all types.

In that example, the professional skill required is management, it's not being able to perform a heart transplant.