Close Contact Self Isolation

[DRM]

Quite. 1 years experience, repeated 30 or 40 times, is not the same as 30 or 40 years experience.

I’ve seen this so many times at companies I visit for work, new manager turns up, wreaks havoc for 12 to 18 months, then clears off to start the same process somewhere else.

 

[BoldonLad]

I’ve seen this so many times at companies I visit for work, new manager turns up, wreaks havoc for 12 to 18 months, then clears off to start the same process somewhere else.

Not exactly what was meant, but, never mind

 

[Badger_Boom]

It matters a lot in terms of having credibility, earning respect, and having their authority to tell people what to do accepted. Managers who are not well respected will never get anything more than the barest of bare minimums out of the people they are supposedly in charge of. Being a manager is not a profession in it's own right, to be considered legitimate you need not only management skills, but a working knowledge of the type of job that you are supposed to be managing. You can't just parachute into a field you know nothing about, then start to tell the people who do know what they are doing, how to do their jobs! Having a degree and a shirt and ties, but no real hands-on experience just doesn't cut the mustard I'm afraid.

Don’t tell the army that.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Don’t tell the army that.

Doesn't matter if it's in uniform or civvy street. People who don't have the respect of their subordinates don't get the best from them, and frequently those subordinates will find a way of stitching them up, or standing back whilst allowing the manager to stitch themselves up. It's a very satisfying thing to witness!

 

[screenman]

How come so many experts in management do not become managers?

 

[BoldonLad]

How come so many experts in management do not become managers?

Pre Corona virus, you could witness it every Saturday in a football stadium near you. Several thousand people who thought they could do a better job than the one who was being substantially paid for actually doing it.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

at least il giro d'italia is on...

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

How come so many experts in management do not become managers?

Because most sensible people at the senior end of still being "on the tools" take one look at the amount of hours junior managers routinely put in, and also being expected to be available 24/7 for a fixed salary - and they decide they're better off staying hourly paid and doing the odd bit of overtime. £38k, say, for a 38 hour week plus O/T at premium rates is a much better deal than a £40k management salary for a "standard" working week that actually ends up being 60-70 hours. You do the maths who gets the best hourly rate, and who has to put up with the most shite. Hourly paid you can walk away from all the crap at clocking off time and forget about it until your next working day. Junior management in many organisations are just expendable cannon fodder, and largely used as whipping boys by senior management to harass the staff into giving them the performance they expect. The junior manager then ends up on the receiving end of all the staff grievances about all manner of things, mostly ones they have no control over. It's a shoot job, both in terms of actual hourly remuneration and work/life balance.

 

[screenman]

Because most sensible people at the senior end of still being "on the tools" take one look at the amount of hours junior managers routinely put in, and also being expected to be available 24/7 for a fixed salary - and they decide they're better off staying hourly paid and doing the odd bit of overtime. £38k, say, for a 38 hour week plus O/T at premium rates is a much better deal than a £40k management salary for a "standard" working week that actually ends up being 60-70 hours. You do the maths who gets the best hourly rate, and who has to put up with the most shite. Hourly paid you can walk away from all the crap at clocking off time and forget about it until your next working day. Junior management in many organisations are just expendable cannon fodder, and largely used as whipping boys by senior management to harass the staff into giving them the performance they expect. The junior manager then ends up on the receiving end of all the staff grievances about all manner of things, mostly ones they have no control over. It's a shoot job, both in terms of actual hourly remuneration and work/life balance.

So the idea is too just stay at the bottom throughout life in your opinion.

 

[lane]

So the idea is too just stay at the bottom throughout life in your opinion.

No you should what suits you. You run your own businesses which is not for everyone or even most. What @SkipdiverJohn says is true in many organisations where for an extra few grand, of which a chunk goes in tax, you end up on an hour's as required contract, don't have time to take all your holiday and suffer a lot of stress and overall in terms of quality of life it's just not the best option for a lot of people.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

for an extra few grand, of which a chunk goes in tax, you end up on an hour's as required contract, don't have time to take all your holiday and suffer a lot of stress and overall in terms of quality of life it's just not the best option for a lot of people.

When I'm relaxing down the local with a pint in my hand late in the evening, and my phone suddenly goes ping to announce the arrival of a work email or even sometimes a text message, I'm in no doubt whatsoever who is being made a mug of - and it isn't me!.

 

[screenman]

When I'm relaxing down the local with a pint in my hand late in the evening, and my phone suddenly goes ping to announce the arrival of a work email or even sometimes a text message, I'm in no doubt whatsoever who is being made a mug of - and it isn't me!.

If everyone had that attitude where would the UK be, mind you next year who knows anyway.

 

[screenman]

No you should what suits you. You run your own businesses which is not for everyone or even most. What @SkipdiverJohn says is true in many organisations where for an extra few grand, of which a chunk goes in tax, you end up on an hour's as required contract, don't have time to take all your holiday and suffer a lot of stress and overall in terms of quality of life it's just not the best option for a lot of people.

What gets me then is some guys do not want the job, could not do the job yet are experts on how it should be done, for the sake of their fellow may/women should they not be doing it.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Doesn't matter if it's in uniform or civvy street. People who don't have the respect of their subordinates don't get the best from them, and frequently those subordinates will find a way of stitching them up, or standing back whilst allowing the manager to stitch themselves up. It's a very satisfying thing to witness!

Because most sensible people at the senior end of still being "on the tools" take one look at the amount of hours junior managers routinely put in, and also being expected to be available 24/7 for a fixed salary - and they decide they're better off staying hourly paid and doing the odd bit of overtime. £38k, say, for a 38 hour week plus O/T at premium rates is a much better deal than a £40k management salary for a "standard" working week that actually ends up being 60-70 hours. You do the maths who gets the best hourly rate, and who has to put up with the most shite. Hourly paid you can walk away from all the crap at clocking off time and forget about it until your next working day. Junior management in many organisations are just expendable cannon fodder, and largely used as whipping boys by senior management to harass the staff into giving them the performance they expect. The junior manager then ends up on the receiving end of all the staff grievances about all manner of things, mostly ones they have no control over. It's a shoot job, both in terms of actual hourly remuneration and work/life balance.

Your attitude explains a lot about how the UK manufacturing sector has sunk as low as it has compared to the rest of the world, and it's not just down to poor management.

If it was just down to those fine people happy to stay "on the tools" we'd still be using the same tools and methods we had 50 years ago. (given your attitude to modern developments and materials in bikes that would probably suit you)

Managers are entitled to decide and negotiate the standard of work they expect their workforce to deliver and it becomes a problem for the company when people regard that as harassment.

It could be due to poor management, but it is just as likely due to the attitude of the workforce.

 

[oldworld]

Before retiring many moons ago i was foreman in a large machine shop. I could set and programme any of the machines and I think this was useful when telling someone to up their game.
We had a new production manager that we'd heard was a whizz kid. I took him for a tour of the workshop and he lost it in my eyes when he stood by a mill and asked' what do you make on this lathe ?'.
He had an MBE and his previous employment was in the electronics industry.
He lasted a couple of years before he was found to be unsuitable.
Next boss was much better, time served engineer with British Aerospace who then took a degree.
Later he went on to greater things within the group of companies. Nice bloke as well.