COVID Vaccine !

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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
"Completely understandable from here"! Depends on your comprehension level, I suppose.
I bet the UK Government would do no such thing. Italy's behaviour is myopic, peninsular and politically inward-facing. [...]
"Britain and the United States have outright bans on exports of COVID-19 shots" according to Charles Michel in https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...ow-about-the-coronavirus-right-now-idUSVIRUS1 — anyone able to confirm or refute that? That might explain how quiet gov.uk were about the Italian block!
 

vickster

Legendary Member
Covid-19: UK hasn't banned export of vaccines, says PM https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56347716
 

Bazzer

Setting the controls for the heart of the sun.
I wonder if it a question of interpretation?
EU - "We are are not getting any vaccine from the UK therefore an export ban".
HMG - "AZ our contract with you states you are to provide the UK with Xm doses on these milestone dates," Therefore there is de facto none available for export to the EU under contracts you have with them.

Note also Boris said the country had "not blocked" the sale abroad of "a single vaccine or its components". No specific mention of the EU. Given the very public spat with the EU at the end of January and some of the Brexit difficulties, I wouldn't put it past the Government to use stocks it contractually receives but considers are not of immediate or short term requirement, to engender goodwill to help smooth the paths of trade deal discussions, or those deals which have already been done.
 
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vickster

Legendary Member
Yes, but is he being truthful? It's not like he doesn't have form, is it?
Dunno but it doesn’t sound like Mr Michel is being exactly open either, personally I don’t believe anything on Twitter. Why do officials post stuff on Twitter, can’t they write more than 140 letters or whatever it is?
Twitter is full of utter shoot
 

newfhouse

Resolutely on topic
Dunno but it doesn’t sound like Mr Michel is being exactly open either, personally I don’t believe anything on Twitter. Why do officials post stuff on Twitter, can’t they write more than 140 letters or whatever it is?
Twitter is full of utter shoot
I don't know the truth either, and on this subject both sides have a poor track record. I hope a trustworthy fact checker will soon present the actual facts.
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Yes, but is he being truthful? It's not like he doesn't have form, is it?
I am always deeply suspicious of statements prefaced with "let me be clear". He said ""Let me be clear: we have not blocked the export of a single Covid-19 vaccine or vaccine components."

I do hope someone asked how many vaccines have been exported from the UK. The above statement would be just as true if no one had tried.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
AstraZeneca produces its vaccines in its UK and EU plants but also operates production chains in other countries across the world, including the USA. The USA intends to use domestically-made doses to inoculate US citizens first, in accordance with a Presidential executive order (Dec 2020) so bans export of those. The EU is seeking to have that USA ban lifted. Early indications that that's unlikely.
Let me be clear: this is the 'word' from Mr Machel:
09/03/2021 | A WORD FROM THE [EU] PRESIDENT
Key erroneous text, with a brilliant first phrase: " the facts do not lie. The United Kingdom and the United States [of America] have imposed an outright ban on the export of vaccines or vaccine components produced on their territory. But the European Union, the region with the largest vaccine production capacity in the world, has simply put in place a system for controlling the export of doses produced in the EU. Our objective: to prevent companies from which we have ordered and pre-financed doses from exporting them to other advanced countries when they have not delivered to us what was promised."
The "system for controlling the export of doses produced in the EU" was used by Italy to block the despatch of vaccines to Australia: Italy had to get the 'OK' from the EU before doing so (and France have indicated they'd do the same, under the same EU 'control' mechanism. The UK has a similar system for controlling the export a variety of medicines. But the UK has not, as far as we know, exercised that for COVID-19 vaccines or vaccine constituents, let alone "an outright ban".
The trick with this stuff is to establish and maintain a good relationship with, inter alii, (;)) vaccine manufacturers and not an adversarial one. Adopting the latter approach is liable to generate chain suck.
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
I think it's pretty simple: one person's "contractually for the exclusive use of the country it is manufactured in" is another's "export ban".

Both perspectives can be empathised with.

A much better and more nuanced view is in the Twitter thread above, but that's the essence as I see it.

Naturally, our govt sees this as a golden opportunity to kick the EU for political gain. Likewise, the EU wants to show its own citizenry that it's standing up for them.

All very depressing.
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Let me be clear: [...] But the UK has not, as far as we know, exercised that for COVID-19 vaccines or vaccine constituents, let alone "an outright ban".
Thank you for giving another example of "let me be clear" preceding misdirection! Have any vaccines been exported from the UK? If not, there was no opportunity to exercise control over them and saying it hasn't happened is not the same as saying it wouldn't happen.

The trick with this stuff is to establish and maintain a good relationship with, inter alii, (;)) vaccine manufacturers and not an adversarial one. Adopting the latter approach is liable to generate chain suck.
So do you, for example, tell a customer shoot on by a dodgy bike shop that it was their fault for not maintaining a good relationship with it? I don't remember that attitude in your past posts.
 
I'm sure it's pure coincidence but a day after the finest minds of CycleChat elected me as leader of The New Republic of Whatever This Country Will Be Called I got the letter confirming that I'd be getting my first inoculation in 9 days' time. I wouldn't have categorised myself in a vulnerable group as my health complication is both minor and successfully controlled by medication.

I must confess that I've not been following this thread - it all seems so terribly serious, with talks of export bans and blockading the Hanseatic League. So what follows is almost certainly retreading old ground.

I remain unconvinced by the UK government's now (in?)famous gamble to ignore the manufacturer's recommended schedule and instead pull "12 weeks" from their hindquarters. It's inarguable that it appears to be to have paid off spectacularly, although how long it will take before any "unintended consequences" become apparent is a subject for people more informed than me (or at least a subject for those who have watched many youtube videos with clickbait titles and scary pictures of virus particles)

In any case the gamble seems to have been a largely unnecessary one; my mum (several levels higher than me on the vulnerable people list) got her first jab 4 weeks ago, they could have given my first dose to her and barely deviated from the recommended schedule.

As an upstanding leader (behold my noble visage and ducal finery) I will of course do my patriotic duty next week and accept Mr. Gates' wundermachines. I wonder which flavour of nanoprobes they'll give me.

Kind regards,
Serene Doge Edgar I "The Misinformed" Pugglesworth
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
I'm sure it's pure coincidence but a day after the finest minds of CycleChat elected me as leader of The New Republic of Whatever This Country Will Be Called I got the letter confirming that I'd be getting my first inoculation in 9 days' time. I wouldn't have categorised myself in a vulnerable group as my health complication is both minor and successfully controlled by medication.

I must confess that I've not been following this thread - it all seems so terribly serious, with talks of export bans and blockading the Hanseatic League. So what follows is almost certainly retreading old ground.

I remain unconvinced by the UK government's now (in?)famous gamble to ignore the manufacturer's recommended schedule and instead pull "12 weeks" from their hindquarters. It's inarguable that it appears to be to have paid off spectacularly, although how long it will take before any "unintended consequences" become apparent is a subject for people more informed than me (or at least a subject for those who have watched many youtube videos with clickbait titles and scary pictures of virus particles)

In any case the gamble seems to have been a largely unnecessary one; my mum (several levels higher than me on the vulnerable people list) got her first jab 4 weeks ago, they could have given my first dose to her and barely deviated from the recommended schedule.

As an upstanding leader (behold my noble visage and ducal finery) I will of course do my patriotic duty next week and accept Mr. Gates' wundermachines. I wonder which flavour of nanoprobes they'll give me.

Kind regards,
Serene Doge Edgar I "The Misinformed" Pugglesworth

Your most Gracious Doge, Czar of all Irkutsk and Uggle Barnby.

You are in this case indeed misinformed. Evidence was always strong that a single dose have good protection, and that staggering the doses might actually improve protection.

Thousands of lives have been saved as a result, and confirmation for the AZ vaccine that the efficacy improves with a spaced dose is now in the peer- reviewed literature. References can be provided should your Grace require it.

I remain your most obedient etc etc scrape bow etc etc please don't behead me for my insolence
 
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