numbnuts
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gone over the hill and far away
So it's OK to do 50 in a 30 speed limit and scare the shoot of of cyclists
Cyclist brings first private prosecution for dangerous driving
- Thread starter TwickenhamCyclist
- Start date
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- Tags
- cyclist
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But although Martin Porter is a barrister, he didn't represent himself.
Nibor
Bewildered
- Location
- Accrington
He wasn't defending anything he brought a prosecution. and I am sure there are mates rates.
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
CopperCyclist
Veteran
Disappointing, but unfortunately I'm not surprised. I wonder if it would have been different had they have gone for careless instead of dangerous?
Origamist
Legendary Member
Quite possibly. I certainly think there would have been a greater chance of a conviction, but going for the more serious charge was clearly a tactical decision. I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind the Dangerous Driving charge.
I think for many jurors the "fact" that it was "only" a near hit/close call, probably led to the acquittal - regardless of the excessive speed and proximity to the cyclist.
Given that close passes and speeding are fairly regular occurrences on our roads, that rarely have serious consequences and usually go unpunished, it is not surprising that 12 jurors did not consider Kayardi's driving to:
- fall far below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver; and
- it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.
as it is normalised behaviour.
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glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
Here is Martin Porter's statement on the acquittal: http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/private-prosecution-results-in-aquittal.html
GC
GC
RoubaixCube
~Tribanese~
- Location
- London, UK
well, With results like this its no wonder that people think they can drive like pillocks with complete disregard for the safety of other road users with impunity.
Unless the justice system & police take a strong stance against drivers that behave badly & potentially put others at risk then standards will continue to drop.
Why does the Highway Code even exist if people are going to be allowed to blatantly abuse it? you might as well throw out the need for driving exams & driving licenses as people dont need to follow the rules anyway.
Unless the justice system & police take a strong stance against drivers that behave badly & potentially put others at risk then standards will continue to drop.
Why does the Highway Code even exist if people are going to be allowed to blatantly abuse it? you might as well throw out the need for driving exams & driving licenses as people dont need to follow the rules anyway.
Banjo
Fuelled with Jelly Babies
- Location
- South Wales
Lets hope the camera footage doesn't go on the net for the car worshippers to gloat at .
I feel gutted at the verdict .Hard to imagine Martin Porters disappointment though I suspect he will not be as naïve as me and was probably more prepared for such an unforgivable miscarriage of justice.
I feel gutted at the verdict .Hard to imagine Martin Porters disappointment though I suspect he will not be as naïve as me and was probably more prepared for such an unforgivable miscarriage of justice.
Banjo
Fuelled with Jelly Babies
- Location
- South Wales
An expert witness calculated the cars speed at 51 to 57 mph in a 30 zone and the distance between car and shoulder between 60 and 80 cms.
jefmcg
Guru
Yes.
Do we know if the defence had an expert? Did he agree with that speed and distance?
It's possible the jury decided that 50 mph and 60 cms were acceptable. It's also possible that they decided he was slower and further away than the prosecution claimed.
CopperCyclist
Veteran
It's a very difficult one. If the jury were made up from people on here, the result would be different. But a normal, balanced person who had never ridden a bicycle on our streets...
I fear that for that "normal" person, the argument from the defence of simply that will always win the burden of proof test would be: "The driver saw and was aware of the cyclist. They moved to leave a space. NO contact was made. The cyclist did not fall over or have their journey impeded in any way. The driver drove as any competent driver would. I suggest a non competent driver would have not seen, collided with, or caused the cyclist to fall off"
No, I don't agree with it - but I can see how a defence could quite easily use that argument every time to win a case of this matter.
The solution now can only be to lobby for something measurable and defined - a true "minimum passing distance" for example, which would have its own issues - however under the current system I personally can't ever see a successful prosecution for a close pass that doesn't cause a collision - regardless of whether you and I know of it was dangerous or not.
I fear that for that "normal" person, the argument from the defence of simply that will always win the burden of proof test would be: "The driver saw and was aware of the cyclist. They moved to leave a space. NO contact was made. The cyclist did not fall over or have their journey impeded in any way. The driver drove as any competent driver would. I suggest a non competent driver would have not seen, collided with, or caused the cyclist to fall off"
No, I don't agree with it - but I can see how a defence could quite easily use that argument every time to win a case of this matter.
The solution now can only be to lobby for something measurable and defined - a true "minimum passing distance" for example, which would have its own issues - however under the current system I personally can't ever see a successful prosecution for a close pass that doesn't cause a collision - regardless of whether you and I know of it was dangerous or not.
RoubaixCube
~Tribanese~
- Location
- London, UK
@CopperCyclist
Maybe its time to start up a petition regarding cyclists safety on london roads and try to get it debated in parliament. Not that it hasnt been debated (or debated to death even) already - Im sure it has on many occasions especially with the accidents and the unfortunate loss of life on london roads of the previous 5 years but more needs to be done apart from giving cyclists their own dedicated 'cycle superhighway' separated from the rest of the traffic.
Cycling in a cycle lane isnt required by law so protection must be extended or offered to those who choose not to.
Then again with all that said and done even if the petition was a success and new rules/laws/regulations were rolled out, our police force are hardly going to pick up the ball and run with it and actually start enforcing them and thats another problem that needs to be taken care of but thats an issue that runs quite deep.
Im sure there are many hard working individuals in the police force who do actually care about their jobs, the communities and the people that they serve but more often than not it seems these are few and far between and a bit of a coin toss to see what sort of copper you'll get to deal with your incident.
Attitudes need to change.
Maybe its time to start up a petition regarding cyclists safety on london roads and try to get it debated in parliament. Not that it hasnt been debated (or debated to death even) already - Im sure it has on many occasions especially with the accidents and the unfortunate loss of life on london roads of the previous 5 years but more needs to be done apart from giving cyclists their own dedicated 'cycle superhighway' separated from the rest of the traffic.
Cycling in a cycle lane isnt required by law so protection must be extended or offered to those who choose not to.
Then again with all that said and done even if the petition was a success and new rules/laws/regulations were rolled out, our police force are hardly going to pick up the ball and run with it and actually start enforcing them and thats another problem that needs to be taken care of but thats an issue that runs quite deep.
Im sure there are many hard working individuals in the police force who do actually care about their jobs, the communities and the people that they serve but more often than not it seems these are few and far between and a bit of a coin toss to see what sort of copper you'll get to deal with your incident.
Attitudes need to change.
