Cyclist kills pedestrian
- Thread starter mr_cellophane
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mr_cellophane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Essex
That's the one. There must be a bridge over the river. From the TV news report, they didn't show any "No Cycling" signs and there wasn't a barrier to force cyclists to slow down. It was a wide path, but still 20 mph !
Let's see what the BBC show now.
Let's see what the BBC show now.
On my way home tonight I was developing a degree of sympathy as kamikaze pedestrians were a problem on Argyle St today. I realised that it is difficult to check behind to make sure that any avoiding swerve would not take you into the path of a car. BUT, having looked at the map, there is little you say in defence of his actions.
wafflycat
New Member
- Location
- middle of Norfolk
I find it interesting to compare *the reporting* of the case subject of this thread, where the cyclist has killed a pedestrian - all over the media, all over the TV news, being used to justify generalised anti-cycling, anti-cyclist hysteria, with this case, reported the same day which has barely amde a mention. Could it be that when the dead person is a cyclist and the person responsible is a motorist it's not newsworty, it's somehow more acceptable? There's an average of nine people a day killed on our roads and many more injured, mostly by drivers of motorised vehicles, yet there is nothing like the level of hysteria of reporting that there has been for one case where a cyclist has killed a pedestrian. Note, I am referring only to the *reporting* of incidents
From The Times, July 9th 2008
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4301595.ece
""Widow calls for change in law after lorry driver is fined £275 for killing cyclist"
Steve Bird
The widow of a cyclist killed by a lorry criticised the courts toady after the driver was fined only £275 for careless driving.
Glenn Syder, a father of four, died after being struck by Kashmire Nahal's lorry when the motorist pulled out of a busy junction in Havant, Hampshire, last November.
Nahal, 36, from Hayes in Middlesex, pleaded guilty at Portsmouth Magistrates' Court yesterday to careless driving and failing to give way.
He was fined £275, ordered to pay £60 costs and given six penalty points on his licence.
Angela Syder, the victim's widow, described the sentence as “ludicrous” and called on the Government to immediately implement the new charge of causing death by careless driving.
The new law was introduced as part of the Road Safety Bill in 2005 and was given Royal Assent in November 2006, but has not been given a starting date by the Government although it is expected to come into force this August.
The charge would carry a maximum penalty of five years' imprisonment. The current charge of careless driving has a maximum sentence of a £2,500 fine.
Mrs Syder, 52, from Fareham, said: “It just doesn't seem right that someone can do this and cause all this devastation and just be given a fine and a few points on his licence.
“I'm extremely upset and angry by the whole process.
“Surely the fine should have been more hefty than it was — the driver hasn't even been banned from driving.
“I thought the sentence was very low, I thought he would get fined somewhere near the maximum and to get off with so little is terrible.
“The Government needs to implement the changes in law that have been agreed about a new offence of causing death by careless driving so that the sentences in cases like this reflect what has actually happened.
Yesterday the family of a teenager fatally injured by a cyclist criticised his “laughable” fine claiming that he should have been tried for manslaughter.
Jason Howard, 36, was fined £2,200 after he was found guilty of dangerous cycling. He hit 17-year-old Rhiannon Bennett, who struck her head on the pavement as she fell and died of her injuries.
Her father, Mick Bennett, condemned Howard as an “arrogant and vile little man” who should have faced manslaughter charges and been jailed for several years.
Referring to the need for the new law of causing death by dangerous driving to come into force, Cathy Keeler, of Brake, the road safety charity, said: “In situations where there is now a law sitting on the statute book, ready to come in, we don't understand why the Government has not set a start date.
“In courts day after day penalties are being imposed which are completely inappropriate for devastation that has been caused. £275 for a life seems ridiculous.” "
From The Times, July 9th 2008
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4301595.ece
""Widow calls for change in law after lorry driver is fined £275 for killing cyclist"
Steve Bird
The widow of a cyclist killed by a lorry criticised the courts toady after the driver was fined only £275 for careless driving.
Glenn Syder, a father of four, died after being struck by Kashmire Nahal's lorry when the motorist pulled out of a busy junction in Havant, Hampshire, last November.
Nahal, 36, from Hayes in Middlesex, pleaded guilty at Portsmouth Magistrates' Court yesterday to careless driving and failing to give way.
He was fined £275, ordered to pay £60 costs and given six penalty points on his licence.
Angela Syder, the victim's widow, described the sentence as “ludicrous” and called on the Government to immediately implement the new charge of causing death by careless driving.
The new law was introduced as part of the Road Safety Bill in 2005 and was given Royal Assent in November 2006, but has not been given a starting date by the Government although it is expected to come into force this August.
The charge would carry a maximum penalty of five years' imprisonment. The current charge of careless driving has a maximum sentence of a £2,500 fine.
Mrs Syder, 52, from Fareham, said: “It just doesn't seem right that someone can do this and cause all this devastation and just be given a fine and a few points on his licence.
“I'm extremely upset and angry by the whole process.
“Surely the fine should have been more hefty than it was — the driver hasn't even been banned from driving.
“I thought the sentence was very low, I thought he would get fined somewhere near the maximum and to get off with so little is terrible.
“The Government needs to implement the changes in law that have been agreed about a new offence of causing death by careless driving so that the sentences in cases like this reflect what has actually happened.
Yesterday the family of a teenager fatally injured by a cyclist criticised his “laughable” fine claiming that he should have been tried for manslaughter.
Jason Howard, 36, was fined £2,200 after he was found guilty of dangerous cycling. He hit 17-year-old Rhiannon Bennett, who struck her head on the pavement as she fell and died of her injuries.
Her father, Mick Bennett, condemned Howard as an “arrogant and vile little man” who should have faced manslaughter charges and been jailed for several years.
Referring to the need for the new law of causing death by dangerous driving to come into force, Cathy Keeler, of Brake, the road safety charity, said: “In situations where there is now a law sitting on the statute book, ready to come in, we don't understand why the Government has not set a start date.
“In courts day after day penalties are being imposed which are completely inappropriate for devastation that has been caused. £275 for a life seems ridiculous.” "
Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
I've just read through this thread and it seems to me that this bloke was bad as a man, not as a cyclist in that his shouted warning that he wasn't going to stop was effectively a threat. Unfortunately for the girl he carried it out. I've no doubt he had not the least intention of so much as causing injury but the problem is that he deliberately took the risk that that would be the case. The kids may well have been acting stupidly and selfishly but that becomes almost irrelevant.
Then there is the second point that the whole thing is then used as a springboard to bash cyclists with the bloke on one link pointing out how some cyclists go the wrong way up one way streets etc. Either streets need side lanes as in places like Holland where cyclists can go the wrong way or the police need to nick them just as readily as they would car drivers. It might be an idea if one is aware of a street where that regularly happens at certain times of the day to tip coppers of so that people can be done. Cycling legally will make cities safer and only add a few seconds to journies.
Then there is the second point that the whole thing is then used as a springboard to bash cyclists with the bloke on one link pointing out how some cyclists go the wrong way up one way streets etc. Either streets need side lanes as in places like Holland where cyclists can go the wrong way or the police need to nick them just as readily as they would car drivers. It might be an idea if one is aware of a street where that regularly happens at certain times of the day to tip coppers of so that people can be done. Cycling legally will make cities safer and only add a few seconds to journies.
Origamist
Legendary Member
Mr Pig said:
It's polemically entitled: Cyclists 'don't obey road laws' and the article makes no effort to examine the wider picture of road traffic accidents, motor vehicle lawlessness and how the courts generally deal with KSIs on the roads.
It's opportunistic, "man bites dog", journalese. However, I grant you, worse is still to come in the next day or two.
I haven't read the whole thread (and don't have time to) so my point may have been made already - if so, apologies.
Round my way ferrule brats often play chicken with cyclists, and occasionally mug them with serious consequences (i.e. severe injury). If you swerve to avoid them you may well still hit them because when they scatter you never know which way they'll run. If you slow down you stand a far greater chance of being mugged.
I'm not for a minute saying that's what happened in this case, but if kids were playing chicken with me in the road then I would do exactly what this guy did - i.e. shout a warning, speed up and go in a straight line.
Round my way ferrule brats often play chicken with cyclists, and occasionally mug them with serious consequences (i.e. severe injury). If you swerve to avoid them you may well still hit them because when they scatter you never know which way they'll run. If you slow down you stand a far greater chance of being mugged.
I'm not for a minute saying that's what happened in this case, but if kids were playing chicken with me in the road then I would do exactly what this guy did - i.e. shout a warning, speed up and go in a straight line.
jiggerypokery
Über Member
- Location
- Solihull
It seems that as a group we really are hated on many levels and that this guy and his sentence have raised many many hackles. But what surprises me is the way that people jump to conclusions and then in a Life of Brian style shout "Stone Him!!!!!". See here for instance.. http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=100821.html
OP
OP
mr_cellophane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Essex
Andy in Sig said:
Lloyds Avenue - even motorbikes do it in order to get to the bike bay. One cyclist does it everyday as his office is half-way up. He then has the cheek to ring his bell to get peds to mind out as he turns into the loading bay.
toontra
Where is that in London. I have never heard of a cyclist being mugged.
mr_cellophane said:
I'm in the nice leafy part of Islington. The local rag has stories every few weeks of cyclists being mugged around here. I myself have had kids try and block the street a couple of times, and from my living room window I saw a cycle courier dragged off his bike and beaten (they were trying to nick his bike but with my help he managed to cling on). I don't think my area is even particularly bad!
Disgruntled Goat
New Member
- Location
- On top of the World
I had a thought. Why wasn't the ped wearing a helmet? This would never had happened if she had.
'Don't be ridiculous' I hear you cry.
But that is what we are told ever time a non-helmet cyclist gets injured or killed.
'Don't be ridiculous' I hear you cry.
But that is what we are told ever time a non-helmet cyclist gets injured or killed.
Disgruntled Goat
New Member
- Location
- On top of the World
Oh and btw I have been mugged and beaten whilst out on my bike.
mickle
innit
- Location
- 53.933606, -1.076131
Me too, beat me senseless and took my bike. Not in some sink estate in Sarf Landon neither, Hereford Cathedral Close.Disgruntled Goat said:
Origamist
Legendary Member
According to someone who was at the court (admittedly an anonymous forumite):
"Most of the quotes regarding what is supposed to have happened were simply copied from the prosecutors opening speech. That speech turned out to be hugely inaccurate, and was not supported by most of the prosecution's own witnesses. Perhaps the most telling example of this is that not one single witness reported the cyclist as saying "I'm not going to stop" - the claim that he did was made solely by the prosecutor."
http://community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/503603557/m/75700379201/p/3
"Most of the quotes regarding what is supposed to have happened were simply copied from the prosecutors opening speech. That speech turned out to be hugely inaccurate, and was not supported by most of the prosecution's own witnesses. Perhaps the most telling example of this is that not one single witness reported the cyclist as saying "I'm not going to stop" - the claim that he did was made solely by the prosecutor."
http://community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/503603557/m/75700379201/p/3
Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
mr_cellophane said:
Perhaps if you made a note of when offences most frequently took place (so as to guarantee some custom for the law) and then tipped them off.
