Cyclists' hearts: Why elite cyclists die in their sleep (7 min video)
- Thread starter medlifecrisis
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Colin_P
Guru
[QUOTE 5122172, member: 9609"]was this all within a short space of time (months) and have they done stuff so that it won't be likely to happen again ? sounds just horrific, is this all related to your thrombosis thing ?[/QUOTE]
No, it has been going on for the last thirteen years. Just when I think I'm in the clear things have a nasty habit of turning into rat-shoot once again. Life and life confidence can be challenging and getting up out of the chair and doing anything can be difficult at times. Despite all that and once I'm out of said chair, cycling seems to work wonders with my mood, no matter how slow and short a distance.
They, the 'quacks' tried to do a procedure called an ablation which in simple terms is to burn the areas of heart muscle away that cause the issue away. Sadly that didn't work. After each time I've dropped dead (and been shocked back to life) they have changed / added / increased medicine. Each time to an increasingly more toxic and evil one along with increases of beta blocker dosage. Currently I'm on an elephant tranquilising dose of betas which limits my max heart rate to about 110bpm, cycling up hills is interesting to say the least. The antiarrhythmic I'm really is quite nasty in terms of side effects but the most effiective at peventing one dropping dead.
No, it has been going on for the last thirteen years. Just when I think I'm in the clear things have a nasty habit of turning into rat-shoot once again. Life and life confidence can be challenging and getting up out of the chair and doing anything can be difficult at times. Despite all that and once I'm out of said chair, cycling seems to work wonders with my mood, no matter how slow and short a distance.
They, the 'quacks' tried to do a procedure called an ablation which in simple terms is to burn the areas of heart muscle away that cause the issue away. Sadly that didn't work. After each time I've dropped dead (and been shocked back to life) they have changed / added / increased medicine. Each time to an increasingly more toxic and evil one along with increases of beta blocker dosage. Currently I'm on an elephant tranquilising dose of betas which limits my max heart rate to about 110bpm, cycling up hills is interesting to say the least. The antiarrhythmic I'm really is quite nasty in terms of side effects but the most effiective at peventing one dropping dead.
JtB
Prepare a way for the Lord
- Location
- North Hampshire
From my experience 3 years ago where out of the blue my heart started stopping every time I fell asleep, I think even lousy cyclists can die in their sleep.
Same with me - the 220-age thing suggests my max should be around 161, but even a gentle 15-mile pootle last week (ave speed 11.4 mph) got my HR up around 170 without really trying.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
First: @Colin_P - well done surviving.
I'm sorry, I absolutely don't think that "the 220-age thing" (see my earlier post on this formula's fallibility) "should be viewed as an absolute upper limit". One's HRmax is what it is. One will only discover it by pushing really hard (running will get one higher than riding) well warmed up. Outdoors the best way is to find a long hill that gets steeper at the end, run at increasing pace up it, sprinting in the final phase. The heart rate will be too high to measure by finger on wrist/temple so an HRM is needed. One's body/mind is self limiting. If one's not fit enough to push extremely hard and/or haven't the will/motive/mental strength to do so, then the HR will be lower (than actual max). Do you think hitting/achieving a high HR (by whatever formula) is 'bad' for you, nutter or not?
What I say below is with the proviso/assumption that the athlete/cyclist has no underlying relevant medical condition.
I'm sorry, I absolutely don't think that "the 220-age thing" (see my earlier post on this formula's fallibility) "should be viewed as an absolute upper limit". One's HRmax is what it is. One will only discover it by pushing really hard (running will get one higher than riding) well warmed up. Outdoors the best way is to find a long hill that gets steeper at the end, run at increasing pace up it, sprinting in the final phase. The heart rate will be too high to measure by finger on wrist/temple so an HRM is needed. One's body/mind is self limiting. If one's not fit enough to push extremely hard and/or haven't the will/motive/mental strength to do so, then the HR will be lower (than actual max). Do you think hitting/achieving a high HR (by whatever formula) is 'bad' for you, nutter or not?
Why not? What damage will someone cause to their body or what risk do you envisage if someone pushes for their max? Can you give examples of athletes (any sport) that have dropped dead or caused themselves (CV) injury when pushing up to their max? Pulled hamstring or calf, maybe.
Colin_P
Guru
@bpsmith @Alan O @Ajax Bay
You are of course free to do whatever you wish. The 220 minus age thing is nothing more than a guide and I think it is very sensible.
I told my cautionary tale to demonstrate as did @medlifecrisis by starting this thread that there can be unintended consequences to our activities. Awareness and knowledge is everything.
My advice still stands that unless you are very confident about your health and /or are very fit that you should watch it and be careful. The accepted safe HR range is to be at 75%-85% of max. Obviously you first have to establish your own max and obviously from time to time you will push up a hill and go to max, just sit there all the time at max HR [edit] is NOT good. The Garmins are very good at providing amazingly good and detailed HR info on the fly.
You are of course free to do whatever you wish. The 220 minus age thing is nothing more than a guide and I think it is very sensible.
I told my cautionary tale to demonstrate as did @medlifecrisis by starting this thread that there can be unintended consequences to our activities. Awareness and knowledge is everything.
My advice still stands that unless you are very confident about your health and /or are very fit that you should watch it and be careful. The accepted safe HR range is to be at 75%-85% of max. Obviously you first have to establish your own max and obviously from time to time you will push up a hill and go to max, just sit there all the time at max HR [edit] is NOT good. The Garmins are very good at providing amazingly good and detailed HR info on the fly.
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Colin_P
Guru
[QUOTE 5122478, member: 9609"]how does that present itself ? as in what happens ? do the legs feel extra tired because of lack of blood flow, can you still get out of breath.[/QUOTE]
It is exactly the same as it is for everyone but for me, on a bike anyway, just I'm probably going 10-15 mph slower and on hills much much slower!
I can still get a decent turn of speed though but it is very shortlived, <10-15 seconds as I'm going anerobic. My sustainable speed on the flat is only about 10-12mph and if there is a head wind can go lower! I do tire though and my limit distance wise is about 30 miles which I rarely do as it takes so much out of me. What I typically do are short hops 10 miles and under but am out almost every day (or evening in the dark and wet as it is at this time of year).
All things considered I think I do reasonably well but anxiety and confidence play a huge part. There is always the nagging doubt that if I push on I'll end up putting myself in hospital (again) after dropping dead (again) or worse still I drop dead and the ICD fails to do its job. The nagging doubt probably explains why I've been a bit authoritarian in this thread, I'd hate anyone else to suffer what I've been through, or worse.
Incidentally I never have issues whilst doing stuff, the dropping dead thing always seems to happen when my heart is at tickover. And due to the betas my resting heart rate can drop very low but never less than 40bpm as the ICD kicks in and acts like a normal pacemaker.
For one of the early cardiac arrest and shock events I was taken through the telemety of the event on screen at the hospital. Within one heartbeat the ICD started anti tachycardia pacing (ATP), on the second heartbeat I was in Ventricula Fibrillation (VF) and certain death. The ICD stopped the ATP and charged for 9 seconds before delivering a 41 joule shock and brought me back. For those nine seconds I was as good as dead. For subsequent events I've shyed away from all the gory details as sometimes not knowing is better than knowing.
As for a heart rate monitor on the bike, I don't bother with it these days as it just depresses and frightens me. Instead I go by "perceived effort".
It is exactly the same as it is for everyone but for me, on a bike anyway, just I'm probably going 10-15 mph slower and on hills much much slower!
I can still get a decent turn of speed though but it is very shortlived, <10-15 seconds as I'm going anerobic. My sustainable speed on the flat is only about 10-12mph and if there is a head wind can go lower! I do tire though and my limit distance wise is about 30 miles which I rarely do as it takes so much out of me. What I typically do are short hops 10 miles and under but am out almost every day (or evening in the dark and wet as it is at this time of year).
All things considered I think I do reasonably well but anxiety and confidence play a huge part. There is always the nagging doubt that if I push on I'll end up putting myself in hospital (again) after dropping dead (again) or worse still I drop dead and the ICD fails to do its job. The nagging doubt probably explains why I've been a bit authoritarian in this thread, I'd hate anyone else to suffer what I've been through, or worse.
Incidentally I never have issues whilst doing stuff, the dropping dead thing always seems to happen when my heart is at tickover. And due to the betas my resting heart rate can drop very low but never less than 40bpm as the ICD kicks in and acts like a normal pacemaker.
For one of the early cardiac arrest and shock events I was taken through the telemety of the event on screen at the hospital. Within one heartbeat the ICD started anti tachycardia pacing (ATP), on the second heartbeat I was in Ventricula Fibrillation (VF) and certain death. The ICD stopped the ATP and charged for 9 seconds before delivering a 41 joule shock and brought me back. For those nine seconds I was as good as dead. For subsequent events I've shyed away from all the gory details as sometimes not knowing is better than knowing.
As for a heart rate monitor on the bike, I don't bother with it these days as it just depresses and frightens me. Instead I go by "perceived effort".
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
@Colin_P Massively impressed with you getting out on your bike after that lot.
Please say where you get this arbitrary range from. Who/what institution is deeming this 'acceptably safe'?
One can't "sit all the time at HRmax" - not possible, never mind "NOT good".
I've given you links upthread which show that even the doctor who posited it, decries it for exercise use.
So not when you're at HR max then. (I hope you don't get another of those 'things' any time soon, btw.)
Colin_P
Guru
@Ajax Bay
I'm no stranger to having a good old row and most certainly don't want, and have no intention of having one here.
Heart, heart health and everything heart has been, as I hope you can understand, a bit of an obsession of mine. As such I've researched and researched from mulitple sources over the years and have gleaned what I consider to be a reasonable view on things.
Of course there are untold conflicts of information online and I'm NO expert. I feel strongly about this and just wanted to impart some of my knowledge, rightly or wrongly. Everyone is different and everyone can do what they want.
Incidently I've JUST read in the news that the super endurance cyclist Lee Fancourt has suddenly died at the age of 40. I suggest that it is almost certainly heart related.
There are no right and wrong answers.
I'm no stranger to having a good old row and most certainly don't want, and have no intention of having one here.
Heart, heart health and everything heart has been, as I hope you can understand, a bit of an obsession of mine. As such I've researched and researched from mulitple sources over the years and have gleaned what I consider to be a reasonable view on things.
Of course there are untold conflicts of information online and I'm NO expert. I feel strongly about this and just wanted to impart some of my knowledge, rightly or wrongly. Everyone is different and everyone can do what they want.
Incidently I've JUST read in the news that the super endurance cyclist Lee Fancourt has suddenly died at the age of 40. I suggest that it is almost certainly heart related.
There are no right and wrong answers.
night cycler
Guru
- Location
- Rotherham (near town)
I have read this post and have no idea what it means.
Crankarm
Guru
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Lee Fancourt the nutz endurance cyclist has suddenly died. The cause of his death is not yet known although it could be a heart attack.
http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.u...sters-world-record-breaking-endurance-1093197
http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.u...sters-world-record-breaking-endurance-1093197
jefmcg
Guru
I hesitate to contradict you again (sorry 'bout that
), but surely one can use perceived exertion to keep within the "safe" range? I was going to recommend the talk test ("if you can carry on a conversation you are below the anaerobic threshold), and google turned up this interesting update to that.https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/rethinking-the-exercise-talk-test/
(safe in quotes because I have no opinion on what is safe. I'll leave that to the doctors and the students)
FishFright
More wheels than sense
Well we could ask a cardiologist but where on earth would we find one of those ? 
