Do link extractors fit all types of bike chains?

[oldwheels]

You could always drive the rivet out using a masonry nail as a drift and small nut as a bolster, just like my Dad taught me when I was very young

I was around thirty when I discovered there was actually a tool specifically for this job and life became easy.

Funny you should mention that.
In my touring kit I carried a nail and once when I had to split a chain I used a stone picked up from the roadside and supported the chain on a shifting spanner. That would have been one eighth chain in those days and I cannot remember why I had to do this. It was over 70 years ago.

 

[night cycler]

Thank you to all who contributed to my OP.

A special thank you for the elaborations-you know who you are. Hope your hands no longer hurt from the teeth pulling. I am much wiser now on this subject due to your patients .

 

[faster]

The industry should have stopped at 8 speed I think. Anything over and chains and cassettes are getting stupid thin. Stuck with 9 speed here though.

Seeing as you're stuck with 9 speed, I feel I should let you know that 11 speed is absolutely fine. There's absolutely nothing in it in terms of reliability and durability.

I've never used 12 speed, but I'm sure that's fine too. I expect 11, 12 speed etc will get a bad name, but it'll be due to the current trend for extremely small front chainrings, which really do destroy chains in no time.

Also, I always feel the need to add a correction to all threads similar to this - 6,7,8 speed chains also need to be joined by a quick link/special Shimano pin.

Yes, I know that people (especially light/weak people) often get away with pushing a pin back in, but it's a risk. For anyone who doesn't believe me, try pushing a pin out of a chain with a chain breaker. You'll see the peen break off and be held around the pin of the chain tool.

Then ask yourself why the chain manufacturer added that peen, and try pushing the pin again after you've rejoined the chain.

Make up your own mind!

 

[Ian H]

Seeing as you're stuck with 9 speed, I feel I should let you know that 11 speed is absolutely fine. There's absolutely nothing in it in terms of reliability and durability.

I've never used 12 speed, but I'm sure that's fine too. I expect 11, 12 speed etc will get a bad name, but it'll be due to the current trend for extremely small front chainrings, which really do destroy chains in no time.

Also, I always feel the need to add a correction to all threads similar to this - 6,7,8 speed chains also need to be joined by a quick link/special Shimano pin.

Yes, I know that people (especially light/weak people) often get away with pushing a pin back in, but it's a risk. For anyone who doesn't believe me, try pushing a pin out of a chain with a chain breaker. You'll see the peen break off and be held around the pin of the chain tool.

Then ask yourself why the chain manufacturer added that peen, and try pushing the pin again after you've rejoined the chain.

Make up your own mind!

Certainly not the case on any chain below 10 speed that I've used. I have always joined 9 speed & less chains with a chain tool and not suffered a breakage in well over 40 years.

 

[ColinJ]

Certainly not the case on any chain below 10 speed that I've used. I have always joined 9 speed & less chains with a chain tool and not suffered a breakage in well over 40 years.

That didn't sound right to me either! I have new 8-speed and 10-speed chains in the kitchen. I'll compare them...

Yes - peened 10-speed pins, but pretty chunky 8-speed ones which I would be much happier pushing back in.

Mind you - I do tend to use quick links these days anyway.

 

[faster]

Yes - peened 10-speed pins, but pretty chunky 8-speed ones which I would be much happier pushing back in.

Are you saying that 8 speed chains aren't peened?

"Pretty chunky" 8 speed chains? There is literally 1/10ths of a mm in it! Not that that is in any way relevant.

Read my last 3 paragraphs again and try for yourself.

For anyone else reading, I'll say again - make up your own mind.

Don't rely on the "I've done it loads of times"/"it was fine back in my day" type posts.

 

[ColinJ]

Are you saying that 8 speed chains aren't peened?

I'm saying that on the 10-speed chain you can see the fragile-looking ends of the peened pins and in that case I do believe you when you post...

For anyone who doesn't believe me, try pushing a pin out of a chain with a chain breaker. You'll see the peen break off and be held around the pin of the chain tool.

I could definitely see that happening.

And I am also saying that the chunky 8-speed pins do not have that fragile area so I doubt very much that bits of those pins are going to break off.

When I fit the new 8-speed chain I will experiment on the old chain, repeatedly breaking and repairing the chain at the same pin and see what happens. I'll use the chain on my turbo trainer bike so I should be okay if/when the chain fails. (I wouldn't be too happy having that happen when standing up to climb a 20% Yorkshire hill!)

 

[Ian H]

Are you saying that 8 speed chains aren't peened?

"Pretty chunky" 8 speed chains? There is literally 1/10ths of a mm in it! Not that that is in any way relevant.

Read my last 3 paragraphs again and try for yourself.

For anyone else reading, I'll say again - make up your own mind.

Don't rely on the "I've done it loads of times"/"it was fine back in my day" type posts.

An 8 speed chain is more than a mm wider than an 11 speed. 8 speed chains are not peened. For reference: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1220/1-bicycle-chains-compatibility/#5

 

[faster]

Looks like I owe an apology.

This was bothering me so I've just been out to the garage and broken the last link of a new 8 speed SRAM chain.

It wasn't peened.

However, I couldn't photograph it satisfactorily, but it was clear that pushing the pin back deformed the side plate and resulted in a small burr of metal sticking out. Pushing the pin out of the same side a second time was much easier than the first, so I still don't think it's a satisfactory way of joining a chain.

KMC, Shimano and SRAM chains all come with a good/correct way of joining the chain, so why not use it? The Shimano way of doing it is a bit crap though, so just buy a different brand!

I'm not convinced that all brands are the same. I'm sure most of the Shimano 7 speed chains I've broken have been peened.

9 speed and up of all the main brands are definitely peened!

 

[ColinJ]

Looks like I owe an apology.

This was bothering me so I've just been out to the garage and broken the last link of a new 8 speed SRAM chain.

It wasn't peened.

I thought my glasses must need cleaning because it looked pretty obvious from my photo!

 

[Ajax Bay]

it was clear that pushing the pin back deformed the side plate and resulted in a small burr of metal sticking out. Pushing the pin out of the same side a second time was much easier than the first, so I still don't think it's a satisfactory way of joining a chain.

KMC, Shimano and SRAM chains all come with a good/correct way of joining the chain, so why not use it? The Shimano way of doing it is a bit crap though, so just buy a different brand!

Without wishing to pile in here, much
Pushing a pin back into a chain was the standard way of joining a chain for decades: think how many billions of miles have been cycled thus! So your assessment "I don't think it's a satisfactory way of joining a chain" is a personal opinion which deserves appropriate respect.
Now the narrower chains (eg 10sp and narrower) are more difficult to (re)join satisfactorily that way, but that method still works fine 9sp and less (but needs some practice to get right first time).
So a 'quick link' is much easier (though more expensive) but describing this method as "correct" and by implication deeming pushing a pin back in as 'incorrect' is arrogant.
Have you ever rejoined a narrow Shimano chain with the special pin provided? Thought not. So you're describing "the Shimano way" as "a bit crap" without any reasonable basis other than intuition and preference.
For the avoidance of doubt I prefer SRAM chains and using a 'quick link' (or whatever they call it).

 

[rogerzilla]

There are a couple of exceptions:

3/16" chains. You won't see many outside BMX. They are too wide to fit into most chain tools.

Some narrow chains of 11 speed or greater can be problematic, largely because it takes a lot of pressure to break a rivet free, or the rivets are peened in such a way that the extractor tends to mushroom the head rather than push it out.

You shouldn't use a chain tool to rejoin most modern chains - you need a special pin or link. This is because pushing out a peened pin leaves an oversize hole in the sideplate, and this will always be a weak point. Even some singlespeed chains are peened now.

 

[C R]

There are a couple of exceptions:

3/16" chains. You won't see many outside BMX. They are too wide to fit into most chain tools.

Some narrow chains of 11 speed or greater can be problematic, largely because it takes a lot of pressure to break a rivet free, or the rivets are peened in such a way that the extractor tends to mushroom the head rather than push it out.

You shouldn't use a chain tool to rejoin most modern chains - you need a special pin or link. This is because pushing out a peened pin leaves an oversize hole in the sideplate, and this will always be a weak point. Even some singlespeed chains are peened now.

Also, it is unlikely that a peened pin can be used again after being pushed out.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Does anybody else ever think that certain individuals on here try to make cycle maintenance more complex than it actually is.

It's growing tiresome now.

It's a bike not a Harrier Jump Jet!

You never did VTOL on your bike as a kid?

 

[silva]

Whether or not you can push back a pin without leaving a weak connection depends on the plate thickness. The riveting is ment to move material outside the pins cross section, as to prevent the plate eye shifting over the pins end. The amount of material outside the circumference of the pins cross section against the amount of material of the plate in its way. The latter increases with the plate thickness, the former stays. It's much like how a click button on clothes works: two pieces are mounted on each side of the to connect clothes parts, by exceeding their elastic behaviour region thus permanent deformation of their metal shapes. The two parts then click in and out eachother purely elastic, because the shape of their metal surfaces is designed to match eachother so that no metal is deformed beyond its elastic region.
A thin roller chain link plate, does not match the rivets, and gets deformed beyond it, leaving a weaker connection.