Does anyone know this cyclist?

[Twenty Inch]

These drivers who use their cars as a weapon are beyond belief- both the bus driver and the "cyclist" driving the car clearly don't have a clue what the HC says with regard to cyclists. Bravo for posting these magna, if it makes one stupid, aggressive idiot driver like those two take more care then you've done well.

Both clips of films show drivers flouting the HC and placing vulnerable road users' lives in danger... for what? A few seconds shaved off their journey time? Is it worth it, really? Why does it offend those two drivers so much that they will threaten and intimidate other road users for no discernible gain?

The excuses used by speeding drivers or the idiots in the clips above are predictably boring: "I am a safe driver, I know best, you are a cyclist and therefore automatically not as important". It's an attitude that kills people daily and whilst slowly and over time speeding is becoming to be seen as as recklessly stupid as drunk driving it's gonna take evidence of the kind magna's posting to make people realise how freaking stupid these drivers' actions are.

What he said. The cager apologists on this thread can parse phrases and split video hairs for as long as they like - both those drivers were acting like pricks.

@ Habibi - you reminded me of one bully in a car cutting me up, dropping back and then speeding past again. I caught him at the lights and he leaned out to give me verbal. I said very quietly "Shut up or I'll break your neck". You've never seen someone wind down so quickly! Gives me a warm glow just remembering it.

 

[habibi]

From my experience you have to shock motorists out of their stupor before they consider changing their attitudes. I'd rather they were shocked by a confrontational cyclist that doesn't conform to the meek reasoning stereotype they were expecting, than be shocked later down the line by a cyclist careering over the bonnet and crashing their head on the windscreen.

 

[magnatom]

You know, the more I read about helmet cams, the more I'm convinced that they give a rider a false sense of security.
I'm sure they can be useful in certain circumstances, but is there not a danger that the rider could be led into confrontational situations simply because of the psychological boost that he/she will be backed up by the footage taken ? Having a camera pointed up their left nostril will deter the ordinary person in the street from aggression, but may well have no effect whatsoever on the serial road rager.
In my book, self preservation is the name of the game, so seeking confrontation is best avoided. I keep my aggression for when there is no alternative.

I've said it before I'll say it again. I have always confronted people like this, having the camera has changed nothing.

Also I honestly don't think I was aggressive. Firm, yes, but not aggressive. I don't even swear, although the driver does.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Yes, of course, we're doing it for their own good.

 

[magnatom]

Wow, had quite a time reading all the responses to this. After my initial post on this and looking at the video a couple more times, I might be changing my point of view on this, so Magnatom, take this for what it's worth!

1. When Magnatom was just about to exit the roundabout, it looks like he was not in primary position relative to the kerb (can't tell 100% from the video, but it looks like that). That would seem to allow adequate room for the driver to overtake (again, hard to tell, it just seems from the video there was).

You might be right here. I probably do loose the primary position momentarily, however, I had looked behind and the car in the correct lane to come off at my exit was well behind. This chap sneaked off from the wrong lane. When I looked back initially all I could see was the clio in the right turn lane so I felt safe to take the primary. It turned out he was coming straight on. I think he hit the horn as he was annoyed that I would dare stop him trying to overtake on and coming off the roundabout!

2. Then I'm not sure Magnatom did an adequate shoulder check or had time to confirm he could overtake to the right of the manhole cover.

I look twice. Once on the roundabout and once upon exit. When else could I have looked?

3. Even if it is legal, I'm not sure it's a good idea to (on a bicycle that is) to overtake another road user (unless I had to) exiting a roundabout, and double that up with the manhole cover being a further hazard. Too much depending on the driver behind you.

Cars often overtake me here when I am in secondary. I don't have a problem with that. So there should certainly not be a problem for me overtaking a cyclist. I can understand that conflicts can occur at the exit of the roundabout, but this one only occurred because this 'chap' decided to take the wrong lane on the roundabout with the aim of overtaking me. He made his decision to overtake too early and didn't want to back out. He then got annoyed at me because I didn't do what he expected me to do, i.e. hug the curb. At least that's my take on it, and I suppose I have the advantage of having been there .

What doesn't come across from the video is how abruptly or not Magnatom swung out (if he did), or the speed of the car (could that driver has braked to avoid overtaking or was he committed by then and surprized by Magnatom overtaking?).

But I think to avoid this situation, usually I wouldn't overtake another road user exiting a roundabout -the problems are that road positioning isn't 100% defined or sorted out at that point, and motorized vehicles are tending to accelerate after encountering the roundabout. I'd wait until traffic and road layout becomes more consistent and predictable.

I suppose the best evidence in my favour of not swinging out too fast was that the driver didn't say I did. His complaint was that I was too far out in the road, not that I swung out.

I do sometimes have to take that road position anyway because of parked cars, and I've never had a problem there before. If I don't hold primary then I can get pinned in by passing cars and have to stop at the parked cars.

Ho hum. I didn't think this discussion would go on for quite so long, but posting the video has served a good purpose. It has got us all debating road positioning, overtaking, roundabouts, driver discipline etc. So it has served it's purpose.

 

[col]

As vehicles are exiting a roundabout ,as has been mentioned,they are normally accelerating,and looking left as they do it,if a cyclist decides to claim primary and or overtake while still on the exit,then its a bad call by the cyclist.And its not a good idea to get vehicles slowing up for your right to primary,on an exit off a roundabout,because the following vehicles are not expecting it,so you could actually cause an accident,by claiming your right to primary and the safer road position.

 

[magnatom]

As vehicles are exiting a roundabout ,as has been mentioned,they are normally accelerating,and looking left as they do it,if a cyclist decides to claim primary and or overtake while still on the exit,then its a bad call by the cyclist.And its not a good idea to get vehicles slowing up for your right to primary,on an exit off a roundabout,because the following vehicles are not expecting it,so you could actually cause an accident,by claiming your right to primary and the safer road position.

But Col, I took primary on the roundabout and the car following me was well behind. As I said before this chap took the wrong lane in his attempt to overtake. My only mistake may have been not to hold the primary position enough. That way he would have had to slow down. In my experience of driving as I exit a roundabout I look at the road I am entering. I am sure this is what most if not all drivers would do. Therefore, this chap should have no problem seeing me, on and off the roundabout and should have no problems slowing down for me.

I should also point out that the overtake was about 10-15 metres away from the roundabout so not right on the exit.

 

[col]

But Col, I took primary on the roundabout and the car following me was well behind. As I said before this chap took the wrong lane in his attempt to overtake. My only mistake may have been not to hold the primary position enough. That way he would have had to slow down. In my experience of driving as I exit a roundabout I look at the road I am entering. I am sure this is what most if not all drivers would do. Therefore, this chap should have no problem seeing me, on and off the roundabout and should have no problems slowing down for me.

I should also point out that the overtake was about 10-15 metres away from the roundabout so not right on the exit.

Or were you in a bit of a hurry,so had to pass the vehicle in front of you,i mean cyclist.


Come on Mag,you had barely cleared the exit kerbs,and if that drain made you go further out,why couldnt you hang back for a safer place?

 

[magnatom]

Come on Mag,you had barely cleared the exit kerbs,and if that drain made you go further out,why couldnt you hang back for a safer place?

Because this is a normal line that I take anyway, as there are often parked cars on the left and it would be unsafe to take secondary and then have to pull out into the traffic.

Your going to have to trust me that the cyclist I was overtaking is a bit of a red herring. What really matters is that I took a road position and the driver behind me decided to ignore that and pass to close anyway. Had I taken this line because of parked cars (which I am sure you would agree is fine) then the same thing would have happened and I would still be posting the video.

 

[Nigeyy]

I look twice. Once on the roundabout and once upon exit. When else could I have looked?

I only put that ("appeared") because just from the video it doesn't look like it -but that is probably because even though your camera shot changed angle, it doesn't show what was behind you -but of course that doesn't mean to say it showed what you saw with your own eyes.

I can understand that conflicts can occur at the exit of the roundabout, but this one only occurred because this 'chap' decided to take the wrong lane on the roundabout with the aim of overtaking me.

My point to that is if you understand conflicts can occur, why not put off the overtaking until it's less likely a conflict will occur? Even if it is the chap's fault (which I think it was) I'd rather be safe than overtaking. I'm in the school of thought that unfortunately you have to ride to other people's appropriate and inappropriate driving behaviour and habits.

and I suppose I have the advantage of having been there .

And there's the bottom line, only you were there Magnatom and the video doesn't always give a good representation of what the situation was. As I said I don't think the car driver made a good decision.

Ho hum. I didn't think this discussion would go on for quite so long, but posting the video has served a good purpose. It has got us all debating road positioning, overtaking, roundabouts, driver discipline etc. So it has served it's purpose.

Definitely! Worth analyzing for anyone to see if you can put yourself at less risk given a similar situation. By the way, I salute you for putting the link up and taking the feedback (good and bad).

 

[col]

Because this is a normal line that I take anyway, as there are often parked cars on the left and it would be unsafe to take secondary and then have to pull out into the traffic.

Your going to have to trust me that the cyclist I was overtaking is a bit of a red herring. What really matters is that I took a road position and the driver behind me decided to ignore that and pass to close anyway. Had I taken this line because of parked cars (which I am sure you would agree is fine) then the same thing would have happened and I would still be posting the video.

I dont think anyone expects a cyclist to pull out into the road as he is exiting a roundabout,it was an unsafe move,and luckily for you the driver saw you do it in time,he will have been coming off the roundabout unaware of what you did,wrong place to claim primary,and then,as it looks on the vid,your goading him to stop,most people would see that sort of action a threat,again,you were probably lucky it was a gentleman

 

[col]

i'd expect it if I was following and paying proper attention, and I don't consider it an unsafe move. A car shouldn't be overtaking a bike on a roundabout exit, so it shouldn't matter where the bike is. Except that the cyclist would be safer if he was in a position where he could minimise the opportunity for a car to pass.

Seeing as the car passed while just going over the white line,as Mag was in the primary,there would have been plenty of room if Mag were in the secondary.But mag put himself and others in danger,by claiming primory in a bad place.Come on Mag, admit it,instead of claiming the car was a bad driver,the drain was in the way ect,come on

 

[spindrift]

Slowing down would have been far more dangerous, it would have meant a clearly impatient driver would have had to overtake two cyclists instead of one, imcompetently. Had magna been having a cycling test and carried out the manoever there would have been noi problem. Had the driver carried out those actions in a driving test he would have failed, and were I the examiner I'd have kicked him out of the car. The fact the driver stopped is another irony: one minute he's driving as if he's carrying a heart transplant to a poor blind ginger orphan girl, the next he takes the time to pull over and start screaming at a cyclist for a perceived slight.

 

[Brock]

I've gotta agree with col here. While negotiating the roundabout you appear to veer from secondary to primary then secondary on the exit before veering back out very wide to overtake the other cyclist with barely a glance behind to see if it was safe to do so. I think you'd have less incidents like that if you tried to be slightly more predictable, and maybe perform overtaking maneuvers when it's safe to do so. Did you signal that you were intending to move across the lane? I was about to say the driver was at fault also, but actually I'm not sure he was, in fact, respect to him for stopping and trying to discuss the situation. Not many would.

 

[magnatom]

I had a look at the roundabout on the way home and I am now certain that I took the safest path. I probably need a diagram (or to draw lines on a aerial map - does anyone know the best place to do this online?) to explain which I will try and do tomorrow. This is one of those occasions where you do something instictively. I had never really thought through my road position at this roundabout in detail.

However, to summarise what I will explain tomorrow, if I was to remain in the primary position all of the way around the roundabout the car would have come at me from the side, due to him taking the wrong lane on the roundabout. The line I took is correct to prevent cars overtaking who have taken the roundabout in the correct lane.

Hopefully I can convince a few doubters.