Does doing something "for charity" give you special rights?

[Electric_Andy]

I've produced a final example in my head that I think I am happy with (from my perspective anyway). A queue is formed when you either require a service, or when i's mandated by a law or written code. e.g. we queue for service at a checkout (even if it's self service, the server is still an automated check-out "person"), and we queue for service at a bar or a bank. We also queue at traffic lights and roundabouts and wait our turn because that is mandated by the highway code.

As Snowden is not providing a service, and there is no written rule that says we must wait in turn, then I think anything goes. And those queuing are trying to impose a waiting system on others that has no authoritative basis. You can't invent your own rule and expect everyone to queue behind you.

 

[Hover Fly]

Bit you can be well-mannered.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

I've produced a final example in my head that I think I am happy with (from my perspective anyway). A queue is formed when you either require a service, or when i's mandated by a law or written code. e.g. we queue for service at a checkout (even if it's self service, the server is still an automated check-out "person"), and we queue for service at a bar or a bank. We also queue at traffic lights and roundabouts and wait our turn because that is mandated by the highway code.

As Snowden is not providing a service, and there is no written rule that says we must wait in turn, then I think anything goes. And those queuing are trying to impose a waiting system on others that has no authoritative basis. You can't invent your own rule and expect everyone to queue behind you.

I'd argue that queueing to walk over the Snowdon summit, possibly touching the trig point and taking a photo is as much a service as queueing to use a rollercoaster.

You're waiting your turn to use the summit.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I've produced a final example in my head that I think I am happy with (from my perspective anyway). A queue is formed when you either require a service, or when i's mandated by a law or written code. e.g. we queue for service at a checkout (even if it's self service, the server is still an automated check-out "person"), and we queue for service at a bar or a bank. We also queue at traffic lights and roundabouts and wait our turn because that is mandated by the highway code.

As Snowden is not providing a service, and there is no written rule that says we must wait in turn, then I think anything goes. And those queuing are trying to impose a waiting system on others that has no authoritative basis. You can't invent your own rule and expect everyone to queue behind you.

Snowdon. With an o. Or Yr Wyddfa in Welsh. Located in the Snowdonia (also withan o) National park. Or Eryri in Welsh.

Take a look at that BBC photo above. A large number of people want to access a limited service (the plaque or trig point whatever it is) accessed by steps.

For safety, not to mention good manners, an orderly queue is the most sensible approach. If you feel that you absolutely must touch that thing and take your photos right there, in order to validate your day out then join the queue if it's a busy day.

If you don't want to queue then there is always the option to take a hard look at your priorities, chill out and leave the queueing to the obsessives.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

The thing I don't understand about the Selfie-culture where eg people have taken the train up is why? Where's the achievement in getting to the top (and needing a selfie to prove your achievement).

I can understand photos of the view (I take such photos) but what purpose does a selfie serve when it demonstrates nothing?

 

[Dogtrousers]

Now, I'm not a great taker of selfies, but I do take photos without me in them, which is broadly the same thing. I take a lot of "bikies" - pictures with my bike in them which I'm sure some people might find a bit odd.

So what purpose do they serve? Well, they're a reminder of being there.

What do they demonstrate? Weird question. They "demonstrate" that I was there.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

... I take a lot of "bikies" - pictures with my bike in them which I'm sure some people might find a bit odd.

So what purpose do they serve? Well, they're a reminder of being there.

What do they demonstrate? Weird question. They "demonstrate" that I was there.

I see that as that you have "done something". You have gone out, taken the bike on a ride, got yourself somewhere through your own efforts. Which I see as different from getting on a train and joining a queue (or not joining a queue).

 

[classic33]

Now, I'm not a great taker of selfies, but I do take photos without me in them, which is broadly the same thing. I take a lot of "bikies" - pictures with my bike in them which I'm sure some people might find a bit odd.

So what purpose do they serve? Well, they're a reminder of being there.

What do they demonstrate? Weird question. They "demonstrate" that I was there.

They demonstrate that your bike was there.
You may have let someone else ride your bike.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I see that as that you have "done something". You have gone out, taken the bike on a ride, got yourself somewhere through your own efforts. Which I see as different from getting on a train and joining a queue (or not joining a queue).

I take pictures of trains too (Yes I am that interesting!)

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I take pictures of trains too (Yes I am that interesting!)

You are pursuing an interest.

 

[presta]

Those BBC pictures are a bit of an eye opener. If there are that many people up there and they all want to go to the very top bit (the trig point or whatever) then it's only sensible that an orderly queue is formed. It's just common sense.

But if you're not obsessive about touching a particular bit of stuff then I'm sure you can get photos that are just as good, if not better, from nearby locations.

Of course this runs counter to the stamp-collecting instinct. If you haven't gone to that specific bit then it doesn't count. If you subscribe to that view, then join the queue. Doesn't matter whether you walked or got the train, whether you're doing it for a fluffy kitten charity. Get to the back of the queue. That's the price for obsessing over trig points.


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If you just want to touch the trig point that only takes a second, the people causing the queue are the photographers, because they want a photo of their own folk standing next to the trig point with nobody else in the picture.

If you want be precious about getting photos without unwanted people in them you have to be patient and wait, there's no point in getting upset about it. You also need to be realistic, if the are hundreds of people milling around you're not likely to get a photo with nobody in it.

When my father took this photo of me on Scafell Pike, he didn't expect to shoo the other people out of the way:

You can remove them with AI though:

 

[Electric_Andy]

touching the trig point and taking a photo is as much a service as queueing to use a rollercoaster.

So who is the service provider at Snowden? Who owns and operates the trig point? Who stands by the trig point and ensures the enjoyment and safety of the visitors? No one. So it's not a service, because you aren't being served by anyone.

 

[stephec]

I see your point actually. If I wanted a picture but wasn't fussed about having no-one else in it, in theory I could just walk to the front and snap away. But the civilised and moral part of me would think, it's bound to cause upset and possible aggression from other people so it's not worth it. Most people queue nicely so as not to upset others.

I remember at Colombo airport queuing for the security checks (and there were no ropes or barriers), then a load of locals just strolled past us to form a crush at the front. A mean looking tattooed Englishman at the back just came out and said "well *%$£ this, if no-one's queuing then why should we?", and proceeded to barge everyone out of the way and walked him and his partner straight to the security man. I still don't know if this was a win or a loss for mankind

I had to do a similar thing at Johannesburg Airport around fifteen years ago, elbows out and every man for himself.

When in Rome..... 😂

 

[presta]

I think a lot of this is symptomatic of what happens when places can be accessed easily by people who don't value them. When it takes a bit of effort to see something it sorts out the ones who can't be bothered.

People just need to embrace the queue.

And what if they don't have the time to queue. If you're in the middle of 8 hour walk, you can't afford the time to stand around queueing for hours.

 

[Alex321]

So who is the service provider at Snowden? Who owns and operates the trig point? Who stands by the trig point and ensures the enjoyment and safety of the visitors? No one. So it's not a service, because you aren't being served by anyone.

You don't have to be served by anyone individual for it to be a service. The organisation providing the service here are whoever built the steps (and possibly the trig point). And you don't have to know who that is for it to be a service.

If it was just the top of the mountain, with no man made structures or facilities, then you could argue it wasn't a service.