- Location
- London
Well remember being in an italian bike shop a few years ago and asking where a mid-price bianchi was made. Was told the entire thing was made in italy. Like hell!
Does the bike brand matter?
- Thread starter Anonymous1502
- Start date
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Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Personally I'm not bothered where the frames are made, so long as they're decent bits of kit and no one is being exploited. My Felt had a Made in the Sticker on it, but the frame was made by Kinesis in the Far Eat I'm I'm pretty sure that very little was ever bolted together Stateside.
But I do wonder why folk buy bikes from Colnago, Bianchi etc and then rattle on about their Italian heritage, etc. My toe nail clippings have about as much claim to be Italian. By and large they're just brand names rather than genuine brands - such as Genesis, plucked out of thin air by Madison - and that's not necessarily a bad thing at all, but buyers should be wary of believing their own guff.
But I do wonder why folk buy bikes from Colnago, Bianchi etc and then rattle on about their Italian heritage, etc. My toe nail clippings have about as much claim to be Italian. By and large they're just brand names rather than genuine brands - such as Genesis, plucked out of thin air by Madison - and that's not necessarily a bad thing at all, but buyers should be wary of believing their own guff.
vickster
Legendary Member
It might be tongue in cheek but it’s also real, check out weightweenies!
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/
- Location
- London
May have changed but the last thing i knew bianchi was owned by some swedish conglomerate. Wandered onto a bianchi stand awash with italian flags and colours at a london bike show and was assured that the head of this conglomerate had some italian blood on one side of his family. Probably loves tomatoes as well?
Genesis i have good impressions of as they are from the same family as ridgeback, which i rate.
Cycleops
Legendary Member
- Location
- Accra, Ghana
it is still the heritage though that attracts people innit. A Ferrari might be a Fiat but It’s still a Ferrari.
RoadRider400
Some bloke that likes cycling alone
I dont think it makes much difference. Cycling seems to have lots of brand snobs with plenty of disposable income. This allows companies to charge way OTT for things with their name on. Clothing is probably even worse for excessive pricing than the actual bikes.
avecReynolds531
Veteran
- Location
- Small Island
There's an excellent article at The Inner Ring website about this: https://inrng.com/who-makes-what/
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
The difference being that Ferraris are made in Italy by Italian people, who cry tears of Italian joy as their latest masterpiece rolls out of the Italian factory and on to the roads of Modena, in Italy.
Its possibly that someone in the Taiwanese factory where the Bianchi frames were made once ate ravioli, or possibly saw a broken down Fiat at the roadside, but that's as close to Italy as that product ever got.
Algarvecycling
Guest
It largely depends upon the Brand and even the hierarchy of the model within the Brands line. Many bikes are identical with different labels, it's true.
Yes, the Far East has the factories in which most bikes are made but the original design, research and finish for the top, better Brands is done by the Brands themselves in many cases. Trek for example make the Madone, their flagship, at their Wisconsin base from scratch but farm out the rest but to their exact specifications. Some of the major Brands finish the higher end flagships that are returned to them from the factories but the bikes are to their design etc. It is not always a case of going to a Taiwanese factory and finding Mr Chen putting Bianchi stickers on one bike and Colnago on another from the same frame production line. Anyone who has ridden a Venge, Propel, Madone etc can see and feel that the bikes are different, that their geometry is not the same and that the research and design is different.
Yes, the Far East has the factories in which most bikes are made but the original design, research and finish for the top, better Brands is done by the Brands themselves in many cases. Trek for example make the Madone, their flagship, at their Wisconsin base from scratch but farm out the rest but to their exact specifications. Some of the major Brands finish the higher end flagships that are returned to them from the factories but the bikes are to their design etc. It is not always a case of going to a Taiwanese factory and finding Mr Chen putting Bianchi stickers on one bike and Colnago on another from the same frame production line. Anyone who has ridden a Venge, Propel, Madone etc can see and feel that the bikes are different, that their geometry is not the same and that the research and design is different.
As others have said the defacto condition is that the vast majority of frames come from the far east; typically the better end from Taiwan and the cheaper stuff China. Some manufacturing concerns are owned by the actual brands, many are independent and manufacture under contract / commission. The brands' input ranging anywhere from designing the frame from the ground up and speccing every detail to selecting a pre-designed frame off the shelf and slapping thier branding on it.
Brands may well select different manufacturing facilities for different quality products at different price points, so just because a company's top-end stuff is fantastic doesn't mean this can be applied to its mid or entry-level bikes, and vice-versa. Same with date of manufacture too; just because last year's model X is great doesn't mean this year's will be too.
Like most consumer product markets the bike world is run on bullshit - the marketing man is king and perception reigns supreme over substance. Many, many bikes are sold off the back of utterly false, misleading, nebulous claims about their facets (country of manufacture being one amongst many). Most "reviewers" will have an agenda that renders them far from objective, so beware when buying.
Be very cautious of any brands owned by investment groups / vulture capitalists - their MO is usually to slash production costs and inflate prices; continuing to sell increasingly sub-par products to unwary consumers off the back of misplaced brand loyalty / faith and more marketing rubbish.
Be aware that as the world's economies continue to circle the drain and wealth disparity grows, manufacturers are increasingly desperate to exploit the filthy rich, with eye-wateringly expensive products that offer very little value in terms of cost of production versus retail price.
While conceptually the bike has changed little in a hundred years brands increasingly rely on fabricating change and arbirtrary performance goals while shortening product life to keep consumers buying - so be aware that "the next big thing" might not be the revelation it was sold to you as, the real-world difference performance between old and new / cheap and expensive bikes is often far less than implied, and that new tech often hides many disadvantages behind the benefits it claims to bring.
Despite liberal coatings of marketing rubbish product quality control (especially on composite frames) seems to leave a lot ot be desired, but unless you're buying right at the top end of the market from one of the few who actually manufacturer in-house you're unlikely to be able to identify which these are or how to avoid them.
Basically, just like most other walks of life nothing's as it seems, most people are out to screw you for their own personal gain and it pays to trust nobody, do your own research and come to your own conclusions.
Personally I find all of this hugely stressful / demoralising so seek to minimise my exposure to this crappy state of affairs by buying a bike that should last me a lifetime - A glorious steel ride from British company Genesis; made from thoroughly British Reynolds steel tube (and manufactured in Taiwan for a brand that's owned by the dubious-sounding "H Young Holdings"
).
Basically unless you're paying thousands for a custom-build by a local bloke in a shed you're unlikely to ever know much about the origins of your frame, the people who made it, the ethics involved, the manufacturing standards adhered to, the value for money you've received or whose pockets your lining...
Brands may well select different manufacturing facilities for different quality products at different price points, so just because a company's top-end stuff is fantastic doesn't mean this can be applied to its mid or entry-level bikes, and vice-versa. Same with date of manufacture too; just because last year's model X is great doesn't mean this year's will be too.
Like most consumer product markets the bike world is run on bullshit - the marketing man is king and perception reigns supreme over substance. Many, many bikes are sold off the back of utterly false, misleading, nebulous claims about their facets (country of manufacture being one amongst many). Most "reviewers" will have an agenda that renders them far from objective, so beware when buying.
Be very cautious of any brands owned by investment groups / vulture capitalists - their MO is usually to slash production costs and inflate prices; continuing to sell increasingly sub-par products to unwary consumers off the back of misplaced brand loyalty / faith and more marketing rubbish.
Be aware that as the world's economies continue to circle the drain and wealth disparity grows, manufacturers are increasingly desperate to exploit the filthy rich, with eye-wateringly expensive products that offer very little value in terms of cost of production versus retail price.
While conceptually the bike has changed little in a hundred years brands increasingly rely on fabricating change and arbirtrary performance goals while shortening product life to keep consumers buying - so be aware that "the next big thing" might not be the revelation it was sold to you as, the real-world difference performance between old and new / cheap and expensive bikes is often far less than implied, and that new tech often hides many disadvantages behind the benefits it claims to bring.
Despite liberal coatings of marketing rubbish product quality control (especially on composite frames) seems to leave a lot ot be desired, but unless you're buying right at the top end of the market from one of the few who actually manufacturer in-house you're unlikely to be able to identify which these are or how to avoid them.
Basically, just like most other walks of life nothing's as it seems, most people are out to screw you for their own personal gain and it pays to trust nobody, do your own research and come to your own conclusions.
Personally I find all of this hugely stressful / demoralising so seek to minimise my exposure to this crappy state of affairs by buying a bike that should last me a lifetime - A glorious steel ride from British company Genesis; made from thoroughly British Reynolds steel tube (and manufactured in Taiwan for a brand that's owned by the dubious-sounding "H Young Holdings"
).Basically unless you're paying thousands for a custom-build by a local bloke in a shed you're unlikely to ever know much about the origins of your frame, the people who made it, the ethics involved, the manufacturing standards adhered to, the value for money you've received or whose pockets your lining...
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I am amazed at the cost of jerseys, etc. And being new to cycling using my running gear for now (including shorts, and amazingly no bottom issues even with 3 hours on the saddle yet!). I would like a jersey for no reason other than having a back pocket, but holding out, and just couldn't believe the prices of most (not just some!)
Mo1959
Legendary Member
- Location
- Perthshire,Scotland
As much as I like my Specialized bikes, I would be the first to admit that they are overpriced compared to similar specs on other brands. Mine were bought at the end of the year when they were getting reduced prior to the next years bikes coming out. At least the price is a bit more comparable then.
Indeed; that's the clothing world all over though isn't it? The extreme end of a model that sees dirt-cheap products made with borderline slave labour in emerging markets and sold at obscene margins while using the totally manufactured, false construct of "fashion" to drive consumption, and turnover through implied obsolescence.
Indeed.. seem to have a bit of a (typically yank) hard-edged, litigeous corporate nature too, which made them an easy one for me to discount personally when I was looking for a new bike.
Algarvecycling
Guest
This Article provides a reasonably good explanation:
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/1252/viva-italia-inside-wilier
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/1252/viva-italia-inside-wilier
