dutch floating roundabout

[Pat "5mph"]

That is another problem that needs to be addressed.

Aye: wanna go fast, use the road. Wanna ride slower not to mess up your outfit, use the cycling facilities.
Yeahbut .... can we have some segregated paths in my area? Pretty please?

 

[buggi]

Oh really? I must have missed the bit where we all agreed that we'd love to move to Groningen. Those who want to go Dutch should be careful what they wish for...

Under the "sustainable safety" vision in the Netherlands roads for through traffic and distributer roads should have only one function: getting large quantities of traffic from A to B in a safe manner. These roads should have no other function like parking or access to private homes and other destinations. On roads like these there is a separation of types of traffic by mass, speed and direction. So naturally bicyclists have their own separate cycle paths.

is that not just describing what we call a motorway? I don't care if its practical or not, i just want to have a go

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Do you want them to cover the country completely?

Just the roads in and out of the city would do me.

 

[ColinJ]

the Dutch have designed a system that allows freedom of choice as to the method of transport you wish to use, the fact that so many choose a bike is testament to the planning, design and law that positively encourages human powered mobility. Secondly, because everyone rides a bike at some time so the person in the car is also a cyclist and therefore has immediate empathy with the person on the bike, that is one of the biggest problems we have in this country, so few motorists have ever ridden a bike since they were children, and many not even then.
How do we make it safer to ride over here? There is no way this [or any] government is going to pour billions into transforming the UK into another Netherlands, but what they could do, but won't for fear of losing the car lobby vote, is to change the law, a simple couple of things like giving way to bikes at all junctions and making the penalties for colliding with a cyclist severe. Of course, before these laws could be passed cyclists themselves would have to put their own house in order, especially in the cities where vehicles and bikes mix together like oil and water.
The government has never seemed to give a toss about the loss of life on our roads whether it be motorists, cyclists or pedestrians, but it is getting to the point now where everyone seems to know someone who has been killed or seriously injured in a road traffic accident. It shouldn't be acceptable, when we visit our Dutch friends in Nijmegen it's a breath of fresh air, when they come over here we feel slightly ashamed.
We sit and fiddle while Rome is burning, sticking plaster and compromise, prevarication and excuses, I for one am sick of it but feel helpless,

Maybe one day the roads will get so clogged up with cars that people eventually come to their senses, but I can't see it happening.

My parents were really cautious people but they were okay with me getting a bicycle at the age of 8 or 9 and riding it on city streets unsupervised, on condition that I passed my Cycling Proficiency Test. The traffic conditions have worsened so much since then though. If I had a child of that age, I would be terrified to let him/her loose on those same roads now.

As you wrote above, a lot of people never experience what we did as kids, the simple thrill of being free to roam the local streets and countryside on our bikes. So, they grow up, learn to drive cars and just see cyclists as oddballs in their way, rather than their family, mates and neighbours.

I am sick of it too, but what can you do other than try to get as many people as possible cycling so that we eventually crowd the cars off the more minor roads!

 

[SWSteve]

I've had a look at this, but I cannot picture where in Bristol it would be (can someone help).

I am eagerly anticpating the work done by my city's Mayor in terms of cycling, anything to allow me some more space/safety when travelling

 

[srw]

You could probably get 5 bikes side by side on that cycle path

Really?! In which case you must either have giant giant cars or really odd cameras in Denmark. It looks about as wide as the one-bike-each-way job in Bloomsbury.

The reason they bothered is that they have to.

If the motorised traffic is as horribly heavy as you've portrayed it, and the bike traffic is such that no-one ever overtakes that was a monstrous waste of foundations and tarmac.

 

[steveindenmark]

SRW, if it makes you happy I will measure the cycle path on the way home and you can do the figures.

As for heavy traffic in Denmark. I dont think I have ever given that impression because in the area I live in. it certainly is not the case.

Steve

 

[theclaud]

Claud, your the first cyclist that I have come across who does not advocate cycle paths.

Really? Then you need to get out more. Actually I don't have a total downer on cycle paths, as my previous post makes clear. There's one I use most days that goes where I want to go, is attractive, uninterrupted, well-surfaced and more direct than the road, for five miles at least - and then it's time to get back on the road. The problem is that very few locations are anywhere near suited to creating spacious, direct, uninterrupted, well-connected cycle paths that don't carve up public space. Roads, almost by definition, map out the routes we want to take - it's why they are where they are.

 

[steveindenmark]

Yes I know but then there is the problem of buses and lorries. Personally I dont mind them, but there are a lot of people who dont.

Steve

 

[theclaud]

Yes I know but then there is the problem of buses and lorries. Personally I dont mind them, but there are a lot of people who dont.

Steve

I don't see buses as a problem - I see them as a solution. As for lorries, there's enough current discussion about them specifically elsewhere...

 

[srw]

As for heavy traffic in Denmark. I dont think I have ever given that impression because in the area I live in. it certainly is not the case.

Errr.... I was being satirical.

You seem to have no motorised traffic to speak of on your roads. That being the case, why spend money on tarmac to take bikes away from it?

 

[steveindenmark]

Its the Germans Adrian, they are always coming here.

By the way that cycle path is 2.55m wide.

When roads and streets are planned in Denmark, I think something is laid down that cyclepaths must be provided. We also share them with mopeds and scooters, which can be a bit concerning sometimes. In the UK, I think most cycling fatalities occur in urban areas but in Denmark I would imagine it would be in Copenhagen. When you see how many bikes are out in Copenhagen the stats are not surprising.

Fortunately, all the government parties seem to be on board with the cyclists over here.

Steve

 

[srw]

Right. 2.55m is about 8 foot. I'm not going to measure it (apart from anything else I'm in the wrong country at the moment), but I reckon my example in Bloomsbury is about 5'6" wide. It's wide enough for two streams of bikes, so 8 foot is about wide enough for 3 streams of bikes - one in each direction (assuming gutter-hugging) and one overtaking.

Doing the sums from the ground up, I've got 44cm handlebars on the tandem. I'm quite broad-shouldered - say 60cm or so? Add decent clearance between neighbours and 2.55m is also about 3 bike widths.

And that road, which looks like a very quiet country lane - why bother spending the money on a bike path? It's not worth it. The money would be much better spent in Copenhagen, where the demand is.

 

[SWSteve]

@steveindenmark I can back you up re: cyclusts in Kopenhagen, there were so many. it outweighed the motorised traffic at times

 

[srw]

@steveindenmark I can back you up re: cyclusts in Kopenhagen, there were so many. it outweighed the motorised traffic at times

{edit}
{search and replace}
"Copenhagen" with "London"
{check validity}

Yup. Still true.