E Scooters > on the road

[Accy cyclist]

Several times I have found myself unable to progress along the pavement or get into a shop or office building due to inconsiderately 'parked' bikes lying on the ground in my way and had to stand there like a blob waiting for assistance from some passing stranger.

I hate that lying bikes on the floor! Those with visual impairments and the elderly must really struggle to get past the things. When we were kids we lent our bikes up,against the shop window or wall,but not these days. I see them get off their bikes,lay them on the floor then walk in the shop. Imagine a grey bike on a grey pavement on a wet dark night. It's a serious 'accident' waiting to happen!

 

[Accy cyclist]

There's one knobhead round here who rides an electric 'motorbike'. It goes much faster than those legal on the road,petrol driven scooters. He whizzes along roads at what must be 30mph at least. He doesn't wear a helmet,have lights on the thing,or have registration/recognition plates on it. He also wears chav uniform black clothing,so he's very hard to spot, or hear approaching 'till you hear the high pitched noise of the electric engine. How would i go on for claiming motoring insurance off him if his head cracked my windscreen,in the event of a collision?🤔

 

[KnittyNorah]

I hate that lying bikes on the floor! Those with visual impairments and the elderly must really struggle to get past the things. When we were kids we lent our bikes up,against the shop window or wall,but not these days. I see them get off their bikes,lay them on the floor then walk in the shop. Imagine a grey bike on a grey pavement on a wet dark night. It's a serious 'accident' waiting to happen!

I have been seriously tempted, several times, to just walk on the things and ruin the wheels and derailleur. After all how could I see them? - I couldn't - as you say, grey bike on grey pavement in poor streetlighting on a wet night, in the way of someone so visually impaired they use a cane to get around. The mobility cane only told me there was something there, not what it was. It might've been a thick piece of cardboard for all I knew if the cane touched a tyre that's what it felt and sounded like ... It would've been perfectly reasonable to have taken at least one big hard step directly onto 'the cardboard' … but each time I was so sorely tempted, a kind person stopped to help me without being asked, so I never did! Of course I couldn't get away with it now …

 

[Accy cyclist]

I have been seriously tempted, several times, to just walk on the things and ruin the wheels and derailleur. After all how could I see them?

My ex father in law told me that he walked on the bikes if they were directly in front of the shop door,blocking his way in or out. 'Big bad Bob' was and probably still is around 17 stones in weight and an ex fairground worker and bare knuckle fighter in his youth. He could get away with it!

 

[MidnightRider]

I used to support these until the test run started. Recent local experiences:

- Met a partly deaf lady who is now worried about going out as she can't hear all the various low noise electric powered stuff (bikes, mobiliy vehicles, scooters) which now drive at above walking speed on the pavement

- After school hours (!) lots of people ride who look unlikely to meet the required 18+ with driving licence rule requirements (no one seems to check)

- Long strings of younger people playing 'follow the leader' usually between 3 and 7 riders - the followers never check the changing traffic so will 'follow' blindly across traffic without checking to see if it is safe to do so. 3 recently cut straight across my route at high speed without looking for traffic as I turned left at a roundabout.

- Large groups of 'after school' riders stopping for chats etc in close groups of 5/6, despite Covid 2m, 1 friend only restrictions at the time.

- In front of local school an adult sized rider at full speed (15mph ?) decided to overtake the much slower general bike riders in the wide specified cycle lane. This was done by swerving into the pedestrian lane and dodging between groups of pedestrians, while maintaining max speed.

- Adults riding 2 abreast with one on the pavement and another in the road, both using the full width of the pavement/road by both riders snaking back and forth across the width of the pavement/road lane they were on.

- 2 scooters coming out of a side road at full speed (no checking for traffic), straight across the first lane of a duel carriageway, jumping the grass central reservation and still without slowing or checking for traffic, cutting straight across my lane in front of me and straight down another side road.

- about 25% of the scooters are parked in ways which hinder using the pavements.

- a local person (not me) has seen adults securing the hire of a scooter and then immediately handing it to an underaged person (supposed to be 18+ with a drivers licence to use one) to ride.


I think as there seems no active checking or policing, users are working on the basis they will not be stopped for poor, dangerous or underage driving. It is impossible to report incidents as the number plates on the scooters are tiny, unreadable even in good conditions when the scooter is moving.

Most of the 20+ age group upwards seem to ride responsibly, perhaps because they have actually passed a driving test and have more awareness of road rules and traffic in general. Perhaps also they are travelling to/from work so are seeing scooters as transport rather than a laugh.

Driving near the scooters is highly stessful as the tiniest pothole could bring them down, less so a bicycle. I now find I concentrate on other types of traffic and on pedestrians less, as I really fear the scooters falling or my hitting one due to the reckless driving of the people on them.

If they become permanently legal (I used to support this before the trial, I no longer do) I think the max speed should be no more than 7mph and some kind of more rigorous identity / age checking (finger print identity on the handlebar ?) needs to be brought in, for the safety of all parties.

Its a real shame people are driving scooters in a way that leaves all responsibility for safely and life preservation to everyone else (cyclist, pedestrian, motorist) but the scooter rider themselves.

 

[cyberknight]

They are all on the pavements here along with the mobility vehicles which go really fast.The latter also use the cycle lanes, the road and the bus lanes. Those pensioners need to take a test because some of them are driven very dangerously from what I've seen.

there are two classes of mobility scooter, 4 mph and 8 mph ones , the latter are not supposed to be used on pavements unless they stick to 4 mph max

 

[mustang1]

One of the mechanics in the local garage sometime uses one to go to work. Not only is he going up a one way street but is on the pavement so not sure how many laws he is breaking It's quite early in the morning though and I doubt if anyone is bothered.

Get CyclingMikey on the case.

I'm up for e-scooters, totally see the case for them. Like all vehicles, need to be ridden/driven/piloted in a responsible manner.

 

[DCLane]

+1 to the above - they'll continue to increase. It'll help mobility, get people out of cars, etc.

It's the idiots on pavements, no lights, riding through traffic lights, not paying 'road tax', having no insurance, riding on pavements, not obeying road signs, etc. that are the issue. Now where have we heard that before?

However ... for e-scooters they're motorised so I'd support a national register for these. With evidence.

 

[mustang1]

I used to support these until the test run started. Recent local experiences:

- Met a partly deaf lady who is now worried about going out as she can't hear all the various low noise electric powered stuff (bikes, mobiliy vehicles, scooters) which now drive at above walking speed on the pavement
Agree, these things should not be allowed on the sidewalk. Kids on scooters have to be put under some control but the same could be said of bikes. Though I'm not saying we should allow scooters on sidewalks just because some cyclists do.

- After school hours (!) lots of people ride who look unlikely to meet the required 18+ with driving licence rule requirements (no one seems to check)
Not experienced this so far but not saying I won't do so in future.

- Long strings of younger people playing 'follow the leader' usually between 3 and 7 riders - the followers never check the changing traffic so will 'follow' blindly across traffic without checking to see if it is safe to do so. 3 recently cut straight across my route at high speed without looking for traffic as I turned left at a roundabout.
Mmmmh blindly drafting.

- Large groups of 'after school' riders stopping for chats etc in close groups of 5/6, despite Covid 2m, 1 friend only restrictions at the time.
But the kids do that even without scooters.

- In front of local school an adult sized rider at full speed (15mph ?) decided to overtake the much slower general bike riders in the wide specified cycle lane. This was done by swerving into the pedestrian lane and dodging between groups of pedestrians, while maintaining max speed.
That adult sized rider is an peanut.

- Adults riding 2 abreast with one on the pavement and another in the road, both using the full width of the pavement/road by both riders snaking back and forth across the width of the pavement/road lane they were on.
Yeah, that's not allowed either.

- 2 scooters coming out of a side road at full speed (no checking for traffic), straight across the first lane of a duel carriageway, jumping the grass central reservation and still without slowing or checking for traffic, cutting straight across my lane in front of me and straight down another side road.
Now this, I have seen something similar. Again, it's the brain that does the thinking, not the scooter.

- about 25% of the scooters are parked in ways which hinder using the pavements.
I can imagine this as a problem, much like parked cars, excessive street furniture etc.

- a local person (not me) has seen adults securing the hire of a scooter and then immediately handing it to an underaged person (supposed to be 18+ with a drivers licence to use one) to ride.
That adult is responsible in that case.

I think as there seems no active checking or policing, users are working on the basis they will not be stopped for poor, dangerous or underage driving. It is impossible to report incidents as the number plates on the scooters are tiny, unreadable even in good conditions when the scooter is moving.
Unfortunately, the cops are too busy/lazy/look-the-other-way to do anything about car drivers, let alone any other form of transport. Just the other day a van driver went the wrong way down the road in front of a police car, like _right_ in front. Cops didn't do anything. Cyclists go through red lights in front of cops, again, nothing. So no need to stop scooter riders either.

Most of the 20+ age group upwards seem to ride responsibly, perhaps because they have actually passed a driving test and have more awareness of road rules and traffic in general. Perhaps also they are travelling to/from work so are seeing scooters as transport rather than a laugh.
+1.

Driving near the scooters is highly stessful as the tiniest pothole could bring them down, less so a bicycle. I now find I concentrate on other types of traffic and on pedestrians less, as I really fear the scooters falling or my hitting one due to the reckless driving of the people on them.
I used to feel the same way about cyclists when I commuted into the city by car. Darn those ssfg hipsters...

If they become permanently legal (I used to support this before the trial, I no longer do) I think the max speed should be no more than 7mph and some kind of more rigorous identity / age checking (finger print identity on the handlebar ?) needs to be brought in, for the safety of all parties.
Yes, something needs to be done about the irresponsible bunch of riders.

Its a real shame people are driving scooters in a way that leaves all responsibility for safely and life preservation to everyone else (cyclist, pedestrian, motorist) but the scooter rider themselves.
These kinds of people are in all walks of life. Eg. I didn't get a smallpox vaccine jab and I haven't got smallpox which "proves" the jab is useless (of course not, they didnt get smallpox coz everyone else got the jab).

Now if you said the same thing about firearms becoming legal, I would totally not want that. So I could be construed as a hypocrite but I guess I'm taking the middle ground. My Miyagi wouldn't like that. One thing I do strongly object to is skateboarders on the street, especially new boarders who, when they be cool and kick the skateboard downwards so they can jump itin the air to grab it, they screw up and the skateboard goes flying into the road. Grrr....

I guess we need a balance of trasnport vs dumb-asses on scooters.

 

[captain nemo1701]

Are retailers actually making it known that they are only allowed on private land ? i doubt it in which case are they breaking the law selling them.
See loads of them around here generally ridden by youths who have no sense in the 1st place and parents dont seem to give a feck

Its a stupid situation selling escooters. Shop owners & websites know damn well they'll be used in public, but don't give a toss because its about £££. A quick caveat of 'don't ride them in public' is all you need apparently. A bit like if it were illegal to snort cocaine, but not illegal to sell it.

So what about introducing a new law: No escooter sales without:
1) A full driving licence, not provisional.
2) Proof of insurance.

Point (2) should hit the market as no insurance company currently touches these things.

So far I've witnessed here in Bristol, Voi scooters littering pavements & cyclepaths (they are the 'new' street litter now, just dumped), unrestricted private escooters at speed on cyclepaths, seemingly endless numpties riding them on pavements, woman wobbling up pavement balancing shopping bags on handlebars, young kids out on private escooters in three lanes of heavy traffic....

 

[Blue Hills]

View attachment 587411

This is a still of one of the local Street hawk re-enactors near me, (he also happens to be a low level drug dealer). He drives on the public road at speeds higher than the traffic, he's doing well, well in excess of 30mph in the clip these stills were taken from.
I've sent footage of him to the local police over the first few months of this year and gave them his routes and times (he's predictable) but heard nothing further back, and I still see him most days.
Police seem unsure of what to do with them, or maybe they're not bothered, it's one of the two. Surprising really since (a) he's a fatality waiting to happen, and (b) all the low end drug dealers are on these now. They're untraceable, fast, and no police car can follow them. You'd think the police would want to crack down.

very individual approach to night-time lighting there.

 

[captain nemo1701]

Ive heard that a lad on a high performance e scooter was knocked off by a car outside out village last week, but there has been no gleeful reporting of the incident in the Mail.

There is a guy who rides an unrestricted escooter on the Bristol Railway Path. It's longer, bigger motor & battery compartment, bigger wheels & was overtaking guys on fast road bikes like they weren't moving. Also seen him going down road behind my house a few weeks back while waiting for the bus. Boy, he was shooting down the road keeping up with the cars easily.

Now, I estimate he could do 30mph with ease. And aren't 30mph mopeds banned from using cyclepaths?. This is my worry, folk are prepared the break the law with restricted models but some will do so with the faster makes. This is unfortunately, the beginning of the motorisation of cyclepaths.

I see it as a clash of ideologies:

One is that there should be space set aside for non-motorised traffic, enjoy walking & cycling .

The opposite is that aficionado's of motorised transport, don't want to walk or cycle (one suspects due to pure laziness), regard the cycle space with envious eyes...

 

[Illaveago]

They're increasing locally here as well; a local 12-13 year-old rides one on the road - badly - weaving all over. Mind you he was riding a motor scooter on the road yesterday, with a passenger. Next time I'll get a photo.

In town/city centres they're more common on roads and pavements. The police don't seem to be bothering with them, which is why it's seen as OK to ride one.

Oh ! You have police ! What are they ?

 

[captain nemo1701]

Just a thought:
Can anyone clarify the legal status of these things, as motorised transport, what is the position on them in mandatory cycle lanes?.

 

[Blue Hills]

I fully expect a fair few fatalities. I live near london's south circular - pretty common there - and it's used by lots of lorries. With such small wheels potholes must be a major hazard and London's roads have lots of "imperfections" - I do hope the riders have trained themselves in some sort of running off the board manoeuvre as the thing disappears from under them.