E Scooters > on the road

[Illaveago]

They are appearing around here . I have seen 5 so far, not many but I haven't been out much .
There are a few kids riding them on the roads without helmets or gloves .

 

[vickster]

Just a thought:
Can anyone clarify the legal status of these things, as motorised transport, what is the position on them in mandatory cycle lanes?.

They can’t legally be ridden on the road
https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/electric-scooter-law/

 

[Badger_Boom]

If they become permanently legal (I used to support this before the trial, I no longer do) I think the max speed should be no more than 7mph and some kind of more rigorous identity / age checking (finger print identity on the handlebar ?) needs to be brought in, for the safety of all parties.

Maybe a brief spell of actually enforcing the existing legislation would focus the minds of the hire companies to up their game. They would presumably have some liability if they allowed an unqualified and/or underage person to use one who was subsequently involved in an accident.

 

[Badger_Boom]

They can’t legally be ridden on the road
https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/electric-scooter-law/

Someone needs to explain that to York Council and Tier e-scooters.

 

[PK99]

They can’t legally be ridden on the road
https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/electric-scooter-law/

Key section in there;


Though electric scooter rules are subject to change, as it stands if you’re caught using a privately-owned electric scooter on public land, you’re liable to receive a £300 fine, 6 points on your license, and the possibility of having your scooter confiscated.

When using a rental E scooter as part of the trials, The Met Police have also said that fines and penalty points will be distributed for actions reflecting the laws around driving a motor vehicle such as jumping a red light, riding on the pavement, using a mobile phone or surpassing the E scooter speed limit.

A woman was also recently caught drink-driving an electric scooter, having been the first to face punishment for this type of misuse in the UK being banned from driving for 2 years and given a community order.


Many (? the majority) of e-scooters I see seem to be committing one or more of the offences noted (ie beyond actually being out in public on one).

 

[NorthernSky]

yeah big explosion of them round here too
if it gets people out of their cars i'm all for it as a transport means

 

[matticus]

They can’t legally be ridden on the road
https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/electric-scooter-law/

(except for approved rental scheme trials)

 

[Badger_Boom]

(except for approved rental scheme trials)

That explains the York activity then.

Many (? the majority) of e-scooters I see seem to be committing one or more of the offenses noted (ie beyond actually being out in public on one).

All those citizens who believe the police work to quotas might be surprised att he lack of interest in making a huge number of easy wins against the dingbats hiring them in York. I'd wager that now the pubs are open again that a lot of our visitors will be imbibing before, during and after use for starters.

 

[vickster]

(except for approved rental scheme trials)

Indeed

 

[MidnightRider]

Considering this set of 'trials' has mostly taken place during a very dry spring this year, I wonder what will happen when we get to serious rain, ice etc and conditions become skiddy for all vehicles inc mini scooters?

In dry conditions I could have hit at least 2 lots myself already if I had not been able to emergency brake well - both times due to full speed scooters abruptly crossing the road without any warning and without even a glance from the riders to first assess traffic dangers.

We cyclists can make poor decisions at times, but these scooters are turning into a nightmare locally to us, as the area has been flooded with them during the official trials. The average scooter driving standards are appalling and given they travel much much faster than most of us cyclists, they really are an accident waiting to happen.

Sadly, this is such a bad start, mostly due to total lack of any apparent monitoring by the police and also maximum speed level being set way too high.

I presume the police are somewhat stuck anyway, as they will not be able to read the tiny number plates any more than I can, and they cannot chase bad drivers as nothing can keep up with culprits except other scooters, which I presume the police do not have a supply of.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I used to support these until the test run started. Recent local experiences:

- Met a partly deaf lady who is now worried about going out as she can't hear all the various low noise electric powered stuff (bikes, mobiliy vehicles, scooters) which now drive at above walking speed on the pavement

I can totally understand that lady's issue. In my visually-impaired days, the increase in electrically-powered vehicles on the roads really scared the living daylights out of me and disabled me even further. I had become very accustomed to using my ears as well as my failing eyesight on country lanes and quiet residential roads to help me judge if there was an approaching vehicle, its size, speed, acceleration, braking etc - and suddenly, although my ears told me otherwise, vehicles would be whizzing past me! I had to ask people in the couple of shops in the village where I used to live, to 'see me over the road' once EVs started coming into the equation. I can understand some aspects of their silence being a huge benefit - but other aspects of their silence are frankly very dangerous in quite a number of situations. The tiny noise they make provides no useful information to other, especially non-powered, road users - information which may be vital to their safety.

 

[MidnightRider]

I wonder where legal liabity / insurance claims etc lie
if
- a person under 18 is driving the scooter (against hire rules)
- the rider does not have a UK driving licence (against hire rules)
- the scooter is on a pedestrian only pavement (against UK rules)
- if a non-parental adult hires a scooter then immediately gives it to an unsupervised teenager

Could a claim be made against

- the hire company
- the department who permitted the trial to take place but who failed to obtain policing engagement
- what is the personal liability of 'children' aged 16-18

I have seen no discussions or articles on this legal area.
Does anyone have a link to any relevant articles on scooter liability?

 

[MidnightRider]

The tiny noise they make provides no useful information to other, especially non-powered, road users - information which may be vital to their safety.

At some point there was talk of all electric vehicles having to have a 'moving sound' fitted, which would be great for both human safetly and that of pets/wildlife. A friend has an electric car and you can only hear its starting to pull away if it is parked on gravel. I wish the 'moving sound' had been brought in for all electric vehicles.

 

[stephec]

You can have as many legal barriers as you like but if there's no one to enforce them then they're not much use.

 

[KnittyNorah]

At some point there was talk of all electric vehicles having to have a 'moving sound' fitted, which would be great for both human safety and that of pets/wildlife. A friend has an electric car and you can only hear its starting to pull away if it is parked on gravel. I wish the 'moving sound' had been brought in for all electric vehicles.

While I agree that a moving sound would help enormously, it still wouldn't offer the degree of information which can be garnered by a reasonably-experienced person from the sound of an approaching or departing, accelerating or braking, IC engine! I expect that we'd all get used to it in time, though - and it would certainly be better than the ridden or driven horse suddenly fleeing in alarm as the 'silent predator' overtakes it without warning, or when bimbling along a country lane with the dogs, confronting a silent vehicle coming round a blind bend at speed …