Eurovision 2021

[yello]

What is meant by "don't understand pop"? Does a different take on pop equate to the same thing? Is there some kind of rule book that defines what pop is and what it isn't? Have you ever thought that the good people of Romania (say) think that UK/US pop is shoot and prefer their own? Isn't a country's 'pop' simply whatever is popular in that country? Or is there some kind of western supremacist view going on here?

For instance, here in France there is a very different take on popular music. It really isn't ALL Beyonce and Taylor Swift. Sure, they are both in the charts here but then so is a healthy wedge of French stuff that'd probably not see light of day in the UK/US - both markets would probably conclude that French popular music is crap!

 

[Eric Olthwaite]

Is there some kind of rule book that defines what pop is and what it isn't?

Yes. It's got to be popular. That's why it's called 'pop'.

 

[matticus]

We do pop that we like and that America likes. We do good pop that may play well on the Continent,

"may play well"? I've listened to euro radio stations; they play a heck of a lot of UK/US music.

 

[Eric Olthwaite]

We do pop that we like and that America likes.

And Europe too

Best selling albums in Europe

 

[yello]

Yes. It's got to be popular. That's why it's called 'pop'.

Yes, I said that. I deliberately posed the question to provoke thought and then I answered it.

What is popular in one place might not be another, that doesn't mean it's misunderstood. It might be taken as an influence and reworked for the tastes of a local market.

 

[matticus]

Have you ever thought that the good people of Romania (say) think that UK/US pop is shoot and prefer their own?

Funny you should mention Romania ... thanks to a colleague, that's where my most recent Euro radio experience was from!

 

[mjr]

In the last 10 years we have sent two acts that people have actually heard of, Blue and Bonnie Tyler, both quite a long way past the prime of their careers.
I did see a good post from the comedy songwriter Mitch Benn who pointed out that he could write a song which would win Song of Europe (Uk selection process) OR Eurovision but not BOTH. In other words what the UK audience wants to select, isn't the same thing as what makes a good Eurovision song.

2012 was Engelbert Humperdinck but, again, past his prime.

Song for Europe finished in 2003. Since then, it has been various mixes of BBC internal stitch-up and unpromoted show on BBC2 or latterly BBC4 which sometimes was only allowed to pick the song not performer. The UK probably will not win until Song for Europe returns as a promoted show on one of channels 1 to 5 with a mix of public vote and international jury vote.

 

[yello]

In other words what the UK audience wants to select, isn't the same thing as what makes a good Eurovision song.

Yes, wise words. I think it's worth thinking about that. I wonder how other countries go about selecting their songs, about the discussions within those countries. Select a popular song in your own country? Or select something you/someone thinks will win Eurovision? As if one can say or predict. We've seen the UK put forward more Eurovision-type entries and still get nowhere. I've long since given up trying to understand Eurovision and just enjoy the jamboree that it is.

Without wishing to overdo it, I think in Eurovision there are some useful lessons/metaphors to be learnt - don't think about it too much, just go along for the ride and enjoy it. It's not about winning (or how to win), it's just about taking part, doing your best and having a laugh. The whole 'competition' aspect of it only serves to give a purpose and process or framework to something that is really just a bit of a hoot.

 

[matticus]

It's not about winning (or how to win), it's just about taking part, doing your best and having a laugh. The whole 'competition' aspect of it only serves to give a purpose and process or framework to something that is really just a bit of a hoot.

That would be great, but ....

why on earth is half the broadcast about the voting?!?

 

[yello]

why on earth is half the broadcast about the voting?!?

I'm not sure I understand your question tbh. And are you referring the public voting, the panel votes, or both?

Obviously, voting is what makes it a competition, and public voting is about audience participation. I don't think you're naive so I'm sure you know that there are advertising revenues involved, brand awareness, etc - and that necessarily means viewers at home watching and feeling a part of it. The voting is an essential part of the whole show.

 

[matticus]

I'm not sure I understand your question tbh. And are you referring the public voting, the panel votes, or both?

Obviously, voting is what makes it a competition, and public voting is about audience participation. I don't think you're naive so I'm sure you know that there are advertising revenues involved, brand awareness, etc - and that necessarily means viewers at home watching and feeling a part of it. The voting is an essential part of the whole show.

Last time I watched a TV talent show, they'd spend 5 minutes at the end announcing the phone-in results. (this could be 1 minute-or-less if they didn't milk it for some drama). Every Eurovision I've watched (uncountable!) they stretch this out over - what - 40 minutes? It's not remotely dramatic - it's just counting ...

 

[RoubaixCube]

Well..... For what its worth Måneskin have had two albums reach #1 In the Italian Album Charts. An EP that has reached #3 and singles that have bounced in between #1-6 with their lowest ever chart release hitting #26

So the competition was going to be tough. It would have been tough regardless if Måneskin was there or not. If it wasnt them, then it would have been someone else.

Måneskin are pretty well established and received in Italy so the Italians 'put their best foot forward' in a way. Im in the same boat as a lot of people calling the whole thing very confusing as you never really know how the voting works or what sort of song will work.

We've been through all the politics, We've been through the circle jerk of the Eastern/Western block highfiving their neighbours rather than who they think should really win. But at the same time, i dont quite understand how the UK picks who gets to represent either.

I had no idea who James Newman even was and when i saw the qualifying i knew straight away i wasnt going to bother tuning in to watch the event. The song is absolutely dull as dishwater.

I did some searching and apparently James Newman is a lot better vocalist than what his eurovision portrays him to be (I guess it was just a case of nerves for him???) His performance on the night a side. He actually has a lot better articulation and vocal range but for some reason he is singing a song that doesnt make any use of his real vocal talent/skill.

Either he was forced to go with the song not of his choosing that he didnt write or hes not a great a song writer as he thinks himself to be....

On the more positive side, i think it would be an OK time filler for UK Radio and he still kept a smile and applauded when the UK got left in the dirt come voting though you could probably see that his soul was pretty much broken.

Didnt tune in for the main event but i was there to see the voting go down. Maybe the UK should brake the mould and come out with an act/performance that is unlike any other eurovision performance they've ever had, absolutely throw caution into the wind and do something random like pushing a British heavy metal band or UK GRIME act on there just for shoots and giggles to see how far the UK gets. I know that neither of these genres might not be everyones cup of tea but at the same time it doesnt really matter what we think is good or not but if other competing nations resonate with the songs and the performances being broadcast.

::EDIT::

what i mean to say is going with something DIFFERENT that is totally ridiculous and out there rather than the safe route that has been tried and tested to death and doesnt reap any results.

 

[yello]

I rarely watch the voting because my interest is in the songs. I can't answer to the 'why' of it but it is all a part of the tradition or spectacle that is Eurovision, building tension maybe? The voting takes a while obviously and it's an integral part of the what the show has become. Who voted for who, and the discussions that follow and precede... it's all a part of the whole.

 

[gavroche]

Just look at the world of music outside Eurovision.
Europeans simply do not understand pop music - never have, still don't.
Every so often there is a random mutation and some European comes up with a decent song, but you've just got to look at the history of rock/pop to appreciate they don't have a clue.

Uk and US pop music is mostly based on guitars and drums sound, designed for the masses and partying and very commercial. Most of the time, the lyrics are very poor and very repetitive.
On the Continent, lyrics are more important and songs tend to tell a story or carry a message. The Italians and French are very good at doing that but it is not so popular in English speaking countries.

 

[matticus]

Has anyone thought of ripping the girl singers' skirts off half-way through? Gotta be worth a few votes!