Example of good driving

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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Doesn't mean they don't hate you, and don't want you to die horribly. Just means they don't want to have to kill you personally.
Spoken like a true midlander... ;)

One only needs use indicators when there is another road user who will benefit from the act. Blindly whacking them out tends to quickly become a substitute for looking properly, such is human nature.
Yeah, clearly @Milkfloat is wrong and the driver of the white car was correct in not giving the driver of the following car any hint that they were about to pull out and overtake the cyclist :crazy:
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
No it's not. More than 99% of the drivers I interact with put me or themselves in no danger. It's not unusual, but I don't need to watch videos of it.
I read the OP as meaning it's relatively unusual that anyone bothers to post a video of non-lethal motoring here ;)
 

Drago

Legendary Member
This must be one of the worst pieces of advice ever dreamt up by these supposedly "advanced driver" organisations.
Back in the day it was nice and simple; mirror - signal - manoeuvre. Using indicators is and never was a substitute for looking properly. The lack of indicator usage has recently become something of a badge of honour because of this "advanced driver" endorsement. Or to put it another way, indicators have become something that only learners and wet-behind-the-ears drivers use.

Personally I am tired of arriving at T junctions or roundabouts and having to stop because there is a car coming from my right which is not indicating, so I have to assume it is going straight ahead across my path. Then the fecker turns left without indicating, into the street I am emerging from...... All because there was no-one behind him, and he possibly didn't see me as I was hidden by buildings on my approach to the junction. In the old days he would (or should) have been signalling a left turn on the approach, so once I had made sure that he was indeed slowing down and looking like he was turning, I could have emerged. That is just one example; I could go on all day about drivers not indicating.....

See, you've failed already. Its not mirror-signal-manoeuver , it's mirror-signal(if appropriate)-manoeuvre(if safe to do so). You've just failed your advanced driving course at the first junction.


The matter has been researched in depth since the late 1920's when The System was first devised and the evidence is quite conclusive. Drivers quickly tend to use indicating as a substitute for looking. Mirror-signal-manoeuver quickly becomes signal-manoeuver if the drill isntnpractised. This is dangerous - running someone over hurts just as much when your indicators are winking.

Conversely, the advanced drill has been proven to enhance a drivers observation technique and the amount they actually see and take in. Then, as a last resort, if you're still unsure the mantra is (quite rudely), "if in doubt, knock one out, and look again", which if adhered to stringently counters every point you've just made.

Why do you think advanced drivers have less accidents and consequently pay lower insurance? Its not the cloth caps and picnic blankets. Indeed, police advanced (or old Class I like I was) drivers are the safest civilian drivers in the country, statistically less likely to be involved in a recordable or reportable incident than any other category.

Note - police standard is a higher qualification than civilian advanced. Police advanced is a months intensive training in excess of standard. Then you have to requalify again to get your advanced ticket in different classes of vehicle like vans, motorbikes, off road etc.
 
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Dan B

Disengaged member
The problem is not with advanced (sic) drivers, but with idiots who cherry pick from the AD teachings to support their own laziness, ignorance or selfishness.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
The problem is not with advanced (sic) drivers, but with idiots who cherry pick from the AD teachings to support their own laziness, ignorance or selfishness.

Exactememt! Or, conversely and just as dangerously, discard the bits that don't suit them. Over the last 90 years its been written in the blood of less conscientious drivers.
 

Brandane

Legendary Member
Location
Costa Clyde
See, you've failed already. Its not mirror-signal-manoeuver , it's mirror-signal(if appropriate)-manoeuvre(if safe to do so). You've just failed your advanced driving course at the first junction.


The matter has been researched in depth since the late 1920's when The System was first devised and the evidence is quite conclusive. Drivers quickly tend to use indicating as a substitute for looking. Mirror-signal-manoeuver quickly becomes signal-manoeuver if the drill isntnpractised. This is dangerous - running someone over hurts just as much when your indicators are winking.

Conversely, the advanced drill has been proven to enhance a drivers observation technique and the amount they actually see and take in. Then, as a last resort, if you're still unsure the mantra is (quite rudely), "if in doubt, knock one out, and look again", which if adhered to stringently counters every point you've just made.

Why do you think advanced drivers have less accidents and consequently pay lower insurance? Its not the cloth caps and picnic blankets. Indeed, police advanced (or old Class I like I was) drivers are the safest civilian drivers in the country, statistically less likely to be involved in a recordable or reportable incident than any other category.

Note - police standard is a higher qualification than civilian advanced. Police advanced is a months intensive training in excess of standard. Then you have to requalify again to get your advanced ticket in different classes of vehicle like vans, motorbikes, off road etc.

All well and good, but I don't see the problem with indicating AS WELL AS looking properly. Shouldn't be too difficult for an advanced driver, surely?

I also did my Police driving course. In Scotland we don't have different classes of Police drivers, other than Traffic Police and the rest of us (panda car drivers). The standard course was 3 pupils plus instructor in a car for 3 weeks (now shortened to two weeks on cost grounds). Full commentary all the time; double clutching (totally unnecessary on a 1985 Cavalier!!); plus some useful stuff as well. Traffic course is a total different thing - 3 months residential course at Tulliallan in Fife, involving weeks of pursuit training, skid pans, in depth Road Traffic law, specialist stuff like HGV regs for hazardous goods, etc..

My Police course was Mirror, Signal, Manouevre based. It has stood me in good stead for later driving courses like DSA driving instructors driving test (just a pity I failed the "test of ability to instruct" which follows the driving bit!); plus HGV class 2 then 1. All of which were also based on M-S-M, and that wasn't too long ago (most recent was about 10 years ago now that I think about it).
I wouldn't give RoSPA or IAM the time of day. My current insurance is £150 per year, and I doubt very much whether any saving made with membership of either of those organisations would even cover their annual subscription.
 

Brandane

Legendary Member
Location
Costa Clyde
The driver behind the first car must have been able to see the cyclist. They should know why the first car was moving out.
What if ....... The second car driver decided that the first one was being over hesitant and decided to overtake it as well as the cyclist (we can't see the road ahead so we cannot judge on the wisdom of this). As car #2 is just about to go for the overtake, he realises that car #1 is doing the same. A simple signal from car #1 saves any confusion.
 
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Dirk

If 6 Was 9
Location
Watchet
What if ....... The second car driver decided that the first one was being over hesitant and decided to overtake it as well as the cyclist (we can't see the road ahead so we cannot judge on the wisdom of this). As car #2 is just about to go for the overtake, he realises that car #1 is doing the same. A simple signal from car #1 saves any confusion.
That wasn't the scenario in the video though, was it?
If the guy behind was pushing, then yes, a signal would help.
 
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DRHysted

DRHysted

Guru
Location
New Forest
Is this what "good driving" has come to mean? On a road with good visibility, not making an impatient overtake but instead waiting until it's safe? Good driving is now the minimum it would take to pass your driving test?

Unfortunately yes it is for me. Which is worrying as my riding is rural not city based.
 
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