Expensive components on cheap bike

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PaulSB

Squire
I'd ask what you want to get out of the components and whether this represents good value

Wheels and tyres are the most effective way of managing performance through mass loss, but even then I'm dubious of the claims and insinuations made by the industry. Talking mass generally (not the rotating mass of the wheels) 1kg off an entry-level bike might reduce its mass by around 10%, but factor in the mass of the rider etc and the saving drops closer to 1%.

Think how much it costs to save a kilo on an entry level bike; just to get you up that hill / accelerate off the line 1% faster.

I'm not aware of claims made by the industry but my experience is this. When I was training for the 312 I wandered in to my LBS one day. Ian, who I'd discussed 312 with a lot, saw me and immediately said "I know how we can make you go faster." Speed was very important for this event. He went out the back and presented me with a set of carbon wheels running Continental GP5000 tubeless. I took him at his word and bought them. Cost a small fortune.

The result has been tremendous with +2/3 mph on the flat and +4/5 mph descending. The descending I know for certain as my house is at the bottom of hill which I used to freewheel down at 21/22, I'm now at 25/26 with the wheels being the only variable. The flat is harder to measure accurately, I know though I'm better on the front and stick with the group average easily.

I should add this is on a Cervelo which cost £3000 so the impact may be far greater than on an entry level machine.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
Makes it possible to have Just ONE bike that is exactly like you want it.

I can't see how just one bike can ever be exactly fit for purpose, unless the rider only ever does one type of cycling in one type of location. Different types of usage suit different types of bike, and that's before you even consider practical, real-world factors like what the risk of bike theft or vandalism is in a particular area.
 
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BigMeatball

BigMeatball

Senior Member
I can't see how just one bike can ever be exactly fit for purpose, unless the rider only ever does one type of cycling in one type of location. Different types of usage suit different types of bike, and that's before you even consider practical, real-world factors like what the risk of bike theft or vandalism is in a particular area.

That's basically it. I don't commute, I don't tour, I don't go off road, I always ride on the same roads, I always use the bike for the same one purpose. That's why I'm not interested in owning more than one bike.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
A number of people are saying Shimano 105 is the point beyond which the gains start to diminish as the cost gets higher.

This gives me a warm feeling because that's what I have on my bike. So I congratulate myself on having spent just the right amount. No silly money wasting for me. It feels true too: How could I possibly improve on the nice shifting of my 105 setup? Anyone spending more than I did must surely have More Money Than Sense. What a sensible chap I am. ;)

However, I bet I'd feel differently if my bike had Di2 or eTap. That's why I don't want to try electronic shifting. Ignorance is bliss.
 
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BigMeatball

BigMeatball

Senior Member
That is not a cheap or even cheapish bike where I come from,

Yeah, I get your point.

Cheapness is subjective. Shall we say "entry level/intermediate" instead
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Replace bits when they wear out with better bits. Money spend on a decent set of tyres and reasonable wheels is another good investment. Saddle and grips/bar tape another. Regular maintenance and new cables another 'plus'.

I haven't generally upgraded my bikes too much, as each did a 'thing'.

Best bike was all top of the line kit, training bike Ultegra, work fixie was all good quality mid range stuff.

Old MTB was Deore LX, and now has some XT parts as bit's wore out.

Current MTB is all SRAM X9 - basic upgrades have been really good tyres, good grips, better brake pads, new gear cables. Wear and tear - new chainring (upgraded) and new jockey wheels.
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
I'm not aware of claims made by the industry but my experience is this. When I was training for the 312 I wandered in to my LBS one day. Ian, who I'd discussed 312 with a lot, saw me and immediately said "I know how we can make you go faster." Speed was very important for this event. He went out the back and presented me with a set of carbon wheels running Continental GP5000 tubeless. I took him at his word and bought them. Cost a small fortune.

The result has been tremendous with +2/3 mph on the flat and +4/5 mph descending. The descending I know for certain as my house is at the bottom of hill which I used to freewheel down at 21/22, I'm now at 25/26 with the wheels being the only variable. The flat is harder to measure accurately, I know though I'm better on the front and stick with the group average easily.

I should add this is on a Cervelo which cost £3000 so the impact may be far greater than on an entry level machine.
That's a massive increase in speed / reduction in aero drag from just wheels alone (the aero presumably being the dominant factor-over the tyres' superior rolling resistance, given the speeds involved). I'd love to experience similar myself but sadly don't think I'll ever get the opportunity!

When the glossy cycling magazines started labelling them as such.
Indeed. As much as I like worthwhile tech and meaningful progress; IMO it's ridiculous that you can spend £13k on a road bike when compared against other similarly-priced engineered products and the the work that goes into them (motorbikes for example).

Manufacturers aren't stupid and can see the opportunities in exploiting growing weath disparity and tapping those with far more money than they know what to do with and hence have no interest in a product's intrinsic value... and of course the magazines are here to push that agenda.
A number of people are saying Shimano 105 is the point beyond which the gains start to diminish as the cost gets higher.

This gives me a warm feeling because that's what I have on my bike. So I congratulate myself on having spent just the right amount. No silly money wasting for me. It feels true too: How could I possibly improve on the nice shifting of my 105 setup? Anyone spending more than I did must surely have More Money Than Sense. What a sensible chap I am. ;)

However, I bet I'd feel differently if my bike had Di2 or eTap. That's why I don't want to try electronic shifting. Ignorance is bliss.
Granted in addition to the minimal mass savings electronic shifting is the only tangible benefit offered by the groupsets positioned above 105; personally it doesn't float my boat but that's just me. Note also that the quest for mass-saving sometimes brings compromises in terms of component strength and longevity too; further adding to the cost.

According to this Road.cc article, based on a typical setup and RRPs a complete 105 R7000 groupset costs around £723 and weighs 2780g, while the Ultegra R8000 equivalent costs £1133 and weighs 2589g. That's about a 57% increase in price for a mass reduction of around 7%, or over £2 per gram of mass saved.

Of course on the positive side those of us who are happy to eat further down the trough eventually get the trickle-down benefits of the advances at the top end paid for by those willing to spend the extra :smile:
 
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BigMeatball

BigMeatball

Senior Member
Granted in addition to the minimal mass savings electronic shifting is the only tangible benefit offered by the groupsets positioned above 105; personally it doesn't float my boat but that's just me. Note also that the quest for mass-saving sometimes brings compromises in terms of component strength and longevity too; further adding to the cost.

According to this Road.cc article, based on a typical setup and RRPs a complete 105 R7000 groupset costs around £723 and weighs 2780g, while the Ultegra R8000 equivalent costs £1133 and weighs 2589g. That's about a 57% increase in price for a mass reduction of around 7%, or over £2 per gram of mass saved.

That's something I also have noticed. Most people I know who changed their groupsets to ultegra or dura ace...they just did it because they could afford it. Benefits of those groupsets over what they had? Largely intangible, according to them.

Still, all the changes they made, they made because they make them happy. Which is fair play
 

numbnuts

Legendary Member
Call me mad,:wacko: but I did this a while back I bought a Raleigh MTB it was a Y-frame in alloy just loved it but the components were crap to say the least, firstly the chainwheel buckled on the second day out and the shop would not replace it as they said I had damaged it.
The second thing the wheels would never stay true, I tried rebuilding the front one but still no good, so after month or so I started to uprate every thing XT hubs on Marvic rims, full XT chainset, and brakes, carbon seatpost and handlebars next the suspension Pace front forks and Strata rear.
I love the bike now it rides like a bike should be very smooth OK it is still a Raleigh and always will be, but I love ir even if it did cost an arm and a leg
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
In terms of bang for bucks it's difficult to see past tyres

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

Depending on what tyres you have now, it isn't difficult to reduce rolling resistance by 10 watts. For a "normal" cyclist that may give an extra 6-7% on a ride. Of course there is potentially a trade-off between lower rolling resistance and lower puncture protection but that isn't always the case. The website has loads of good info

FWIW I use Continental 5000s as they seem to offer a really good combination of low rolling resistance and decent protection. They aren't cheap....but in terms of bang for bucks they're a zillion times better than, say, a groupset upgrade
 
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