Expert Needed!!

[53-11]

My mother and father in law are having some trouble with a very expensive german made folding low step tandem that they bought less than a year ago from the UK distributor of these bikes in southern England. They need an expert to look at this bike and determine the reason for the failure of the hinge mechanism.

The problem is that the manufacturer is claiming that the in-laws caused the problem by fitting what they call a 'suspension saddle' to the bike. This is despite the fact that the saddle provides virtually no travel (<1mm) and is situated directly over the rear suspension of the bike - remote from the hinge mech which is just behind the front wheel.

They feel so strongly about this situation that they are willing to pay for the expertise. Can someone help please???

 

[Manonabike]

I'm not an expert on these bikes but, having said that, this is the first time I heard a saddle being blamed for causing a fault. On the other hand, what sounds familiar is a company trying to blame a manufacturing problem on the bike user.

I would be very surprised if the fault is not a manufacturing problem.

 

[gwhite]

The best advice I can give is to have your in-laws join the CTC. This would mean that they could avail themselves of the services of the CTC's legal dept. and of Chris Juden, the technical expert.

 

[green1]

My mother and father in law are having some trouble with a very expensive german made folding low step tandem that they bought less than a year ago from the UK distributor of these bikes in southern England. They need an expert to look at this bike and determine the reason for the failure of the hinge mechanism.

The problem is that the manufacturer is claiming that the in-laws caused the problem by fitting what they call a 'suspension saddle' to the bike. This is despite the fact that the saddle provides virtually no travel (<1mm) and is situated directly over the rear suspension of the bike - remote from the hinge mech which is just behind the front wheel.

They feel so strongly about this situation that they are willing to pay for the expertise. Can someone help please???

Tell them to take it to the LBS and ask them to do an assessment of it. Get a receipt for the cost of this, then contact the UK distributor (note it has nothing to do with the manufacturer only the seller), if they get no joy then trading standards/court, as under Sale of Goods act it's not fit for purpose, they should also get the cost of the assessment report refunded.

 

[fossyant]

Bike shop assessment !

 

[53-11]

Tell them to take it to the LBS and ask them to do an assessment of it. Get a receipt for the cost of this, then contact the UK distributor (note it has nothing to do with the manufacturer only the seller), if they get no joy then trading standards/court, as under Sale of Goods act it's not fit for purpose, they should also get the cost of the assessment report refunded.

The seller is hiding behind the manufacturer, absolving themselves of all responsibility by pointing to the manufacturers ridiculous assessment of the situation ('[the manufacturer] say its a suspension saddle and have said that suspension saddles cannot be fitted to the frame therefore it is nothing to do with us' [or words to that effect]). They have not asked to see the frame for themselves, assessed the saddle themselves or explained how this saddle choice could affect the remotely located hinge - remember, I tested the saddle and it compressed <1mm with a 17.5 stone person directly exerting their weight on it. (just for clarity the in-laws are small people, both in their seventies so could not exert anything like that on the saddle).

The seller has also gone on the offensive - 'if you take us to court and lose we will recover our costs from you'. Now, this would be like a red rag to a bull with me, but the in-laws are pensioners and have been a bit frightened by the threats.

Oh, I almost forgot to say that I assessed the saddle myself being an engineer of nearly 20 years experience, but the seller deemed my assessment as inadmissable as it was not 'independent'. So they have set themselves up as judge and jury as to what evidence they will allow!

 

[oldfatfool]

What a load of bunkem, the seller is just playing bully boy because your parents are knocking on a bit. As mentioned either LBS or CTC, or both. Who is the seller (internet????) and what is the bike/ manufacturer??

Edit: is it a BERNDS bike?? In their bumf it does say that mounting a sprung saddle is not permitted for safety reasons, I would still contact the ctc as I doubt they could use this "modification" as an excuse for the folding mechanism to fail.

 

[53-11]

No, the seller is a bike shop (with an internet site) - but I'm not going to name them because my in-laws are getting quite afraid/worried about them and asked that I didn't. I can't confirm* the type of bike either for similar reasons. Believe me though I would like nothing more than to stand on the roof tops and shout out the names of both these two companies - because of what I see as their bullying, revolting behaviour. And after the in-laws had spent £4650 on this bike!

You're right it is bunkem of course (at least IMHO). But we need an 'independent' expert to show this.


* -or deny....

 

[snorri]

The seller has also gone on the offensive - 'if you take us to court and lose we will recover our costs from you'.

I would suggest if things have sunk to this level you are on the verge of requiring guidance from a legal expert. How about a visit to your local Citizens Advice Bureau, or your local council Consumer Advice department?.
I would be loath to go to the lbs for a full survey at this stage, the seller/manufacturer may argue the lbs is not independent, could be a family member for all they know.

 

[fossyant]

It's a 4k bike, FFS it should take some serious abuse. Suspension saddles will reduce user load if you know what I mean.

Can you let us know the bike and saddle fitted. The retailer is being an ass. I'd be down the shop demanding it get sorted. It's less than 12 months old.

Saddle causing problems, my arse.

 

[fossyant]

What if your relatives fitted a 150g carbon railed saddle eh, and were rather heavy, the stress transferred would be much more.

 

[green1]

The seller is hiding behind the manufacturer, absolving themselves of all responsibility by pointing to the manufacturers ridiculous assessment of the situation ('[the manufacturer] say its a suspension saddle and have said that suspension saddles cannot be fitted to the frame therefore it is nothing to do with us' [or words to that effect]). They have not asked to see the frame for themselves, assessed the saddle themselves or explained how this saddle choice could affect the remotely located hinge - remember, I tested the saddle and it compressed <1mm with a 17.5 stone person directly exerting their weight on it. (just for clarity the in-laws are small people, both in their seventies so could not exert anything like that on the saddle).

The seller has also gone on the offensive - 'if you take us to court and lose we will recover our costs from you'. Now, this would be like a red rag to a bull with me, but the in-laws are pensioners and have been a bit frightened by the threats.

Oh, I almost forgot to say that I assessed the saddle myself being an engineer of nearly 30 years experience, but the seller deemed my assessment as inadmissable as it was not 'independent'. So they have set themselves up as judge and jury as to what evidence they will allow!

Tell them (the shop) to have a read of the Sale of Goods act 1979, They can't hide behind the manufacturer, the manufacturer didn't sell your parents the bike shop did.

 

[53-11]

I'm really sorry, but I can't post the names because I promised the in-laws I wouldn't. I'd love to, but can't.

The in-laws have already gone through the Sales of Goods act with the bike shop, but they're sticking to the same line - its your fault for fitting a suspension saddle - the manufacturer disallowed it.

 

[green1]

I'm really sorry, but I can't post the names because I promised the in-laws I wouldn't. I'd love to, but can't.

The in-laws have already gone through the Sales of Goods act with the bike shop, but they're sticking to the same line - its your fault for fitting a suspension saddle - the manufacturer disallowed it.

Next step is trading standards/CAB.

 

[TheDoctor]

I'd join the CTC and get the legal team on it.