First electric car experience

[figbat]

An EV would have cost half that, zero pollution from non existent exhaust

Whilst I am generally supportive of EVs (evidenced by my order of the MINI), let's not get too ahead of ourselves. Zero pollution at point of use is different from an absolute zero pollution. EVs do have an exhaust - it is just a remote one that emits the pollution in bulk alongside all the emissions associated with domestic and industrial power supply. At least the EV's emissions are usually away from population centres, produced by an increasingly renewable energy mix and, where they are created by a fuel-burning station, are done so with an ever-present and constant fettling for efficiency.

And EVs also generate tyre and brake particulates and potentially low level ozone too.

 

[gzoom]

And EVs also generate tyre and brake particulates and potentially low level ozone too.

More than combustion cars? I've just checked the tyres on our 2ton+ SUV in preparation for a MOT, 25k miles done still 3mm+ of tread left (4mm on the rear).

Brake pad wear seems to be 50k per set, not bad for a car of its size. Smaller EVs wouldn't need pads till 70k+ miles.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

At least the EV's emissions are usually away from population centres, produced by an increasingly renewable energy mix and, where they are created by a fuel-burning station, are done so with an ever-present and constant fettling for efficiency.

As I understand it, the total efficiency of EVs is such that even if the leccy is generated from fossil fuels, they're still more efficient than ICE cars.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

brake particulates

I wonder how much regenerative braking reduces this by compared to ICE cars?

 

[CXRAndy]

I wonder how much regenerative braking reduces this by compared to ICE cars?

I can do a 70 mile journey involving numerous stop points and not touch the brakes once. Thats how good regen is. Both our main use cars come to a full stop using regen alone. It only takes a few drives to perfect regen stopping

Re tyres. Our first set on the Nissan were changed at 51000 miles. Brakes have virtually no wear at 70K miles

 

[MrGrumpy]

We too went to a funeral, took two Teslas, 7 of us travelling. Did an 180 mile round trip, charged both cars night before to 220miles each. We too didn't need to stop or find a charger.

Two Tesla’s now your showing off .

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I can do a 70 mile journey involving numerous stop points and not touch the brakes once. Thats how good regen is. Both our main use cars come to a full stop using regen alone. It only takes a few drives to perfect regen stopping

Re tyres. Our first set on the Nissan were changed at 51000 miles. Brakes have virtually no wear at 70K miles

Thanks for all the info on this thread, much appreciated.

A few things hold me back ATM.

(1) Tightfisted yorkshireness. I'm not a car person and quite happy with our ancient Galaxy which does everything I need at near zero cost. I do hate unreliable cars though, so if it starts to go wrong I'll replace it.

(2) Tandem transporting. There's no other practical way to get a tandem around other than on a car roof. Getting to the Alps is a 16 hour continuous journey and *just* doable in a day but knackers the fuel efficiency - so will knacker the range on an EV. That makes it at least a 2 day journey I think. Maybe even three...

(3) Charger networks. It sounds a bit of a nightmare at the moment on interconnectivity of various charger networks, apps etc. Someone upthread said you can't use Tesla charger on non-Teslas yet, though planned. I'm guessing a cross Europe journey makes all this yet worse. Certainly possible, but a hassle.

So I think I'll hold off until the Galaxy dies a natural death and take the plunge then. An e-Niro looks to be the job at the moment, but hopefully more choice will come too.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Two Tesla’s now your showing off .

He's John Prescott Jnr

 

[icowden]

I too eagerly await the other manufacturers taking the non-annual path to servicing….but it hasn’t happened yet.

Yes. It's almost like the other manufacturers are just converting what they did with their ICE cars to doing the same but sticking some motors in.
They are all starting to wake up to the fact that they have billions of dollars worth of assets that are *very* quickly going to become obsolete. If demand drops for diesels and petrol cars, that's a huge amount of investment that won't sell.

The reason that Tesla fans tend to be a bit die hard is that a Tesla is not just a diesel / petrol car converted to run on electricity. It is a full design from the ground up with the ultimate aim of producing fully autonomous cars. As I have said before - you can't convert a Nokia 3210 into a smart phone effectively nor a Bakelite rotary dial phone into a Nokia 3210. Starting from scratch has allowed Tesla to absolutely dominate the market, to the point that most owners will say that they have had some issues, but they wouldn't change to another manufacturer.

 

[icowden]

(1) Tightfisted yorkshireness. I'm not a car person and quite happy with our ancient Galaxy which does everything I need at near zero cost. I do hate unreliable cars though, so if it starts to go wrong I'll replace it.

(2) Tandem transporting. There's no other practical way to get a tandem around other than on a car roof. Getting to the Alps is a 16 hour continuous journey and *just* doable in a day but knackers the fuel efficiency - so will knacker the range on an EV. That makes it at least a 2 day journey I think. Maybe even three...

(3) Charger networks. It sounds a bit of a nightmare at the moment on interconnectivity of various charger networks, apps etc. Someone upthread said you can't use Tesla charger on non-Teslas yet, though planned. I'm guessing a cross Europe journey makes all this yet worse. Certainly possible, but a hassle.

I agree with all of those. I slightly boggle that anyone can make a 16 hour continuous journey though. Surely you must stop a few times for a wee break? If so, you can pick up a large amount of range in short time on a supercharger (they are designed to charge really fast in the middle bracket of the full range - it's much quicker to get from 50 miles to say 200 miles than from 200 to 250 miles). But yes, at present you would probably need to stop a couple of times to charge depending on which vehicle you had.

If you don't go Tesla then yes, you can't use a Tesla charger yet. Musk has said that this will be changing in the next few months though. There is a small learning curve on the different cable / charger compatibility though. On the other hand most cars will help you find a suitable charger on route.

Like me, for your use case, the Tesla Y is probably the best option. A Tesla X would be best, but is incredibly expensive. One for the lottery win <sigh>.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Yes. It's almost like the other manufacturers are just converting what they did with their ICE cars to doing the same but sticking some motors in.
They are all starting to wake up to the fact that they have billions of dollars worth of assets that are *very* quickly going to become obsolete. If demand drops for diesels and petrol cars, that's a huge amount of investment that won't sell.

The reason that Tesla fans tend to be a bit die hard is that a Tesla is not just a diesel / petrol car converted to run on electricity. It is a full design from the ground up with the ultimate aim of producing fully autonomous cars. As I have said before - you can't convert a Nokia 3210 into a smart phone effectively nor a Bakelite rotary dial phone into a Nokia 3210. Starting from scratch has allowed Tesla to absolutely dominate the market, to the point that most owners will say that they have had some issues, but they wouldn't change to another manufacturer.

No offence I’ve seen a Tesla in the flesh ( bro in law owns one ) it’s not a Bonny car . However beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally I think he was sucked in and regrets the purchase which evidenced by the fact they use the BMW X1 more now .

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I agree with all of those. I slightly boggle that anyone can make a 16 hour continuous journey though. Surely you must stop a few times for a wee break?

Sorry, not completely continuous, but more or less - ie drive for a couple of hours, swap, go again, 80mph on French motorways reduces the fuel efficiency by about 2/3 or more, about 30-35mpg rather than 45-50 without the bikes. Need to refuel probably twice with a diesel.

So I'd guess the best you'd get would be, what, 150 miles on an EV, it's about a 900 mile journey, need best part of an hour recharging each time even on a rapid charger I think, maybe 6 charges? Definitely makes it 2 days rather than one, I think.

This is a completely atypical scenario, no other journey I do would be a serious problem. And even this would be OK, a minor inconvenience *if* I was confident about all the availability, interconnectivity etc. As two days is more civilise than one anyway.

 

[MrGrumpy]

I’m hoping EV development continues at pace. A reliable charging network and vehicles capable of doing what I can do now. However I’m thinking I’ll probably have sold my caravan by then , so my needs might be different.

 

[icowden]

So I'd guess the best you'd get would be, what, 150 miles on an EV, it's about a 900 mile journey, need best part of an hour recharging each time even on a rapid charger I think, maybe 6 charges? Definitely makes it 2 days rather than one, I think.

That seems fair although @gzoom is probably best able to corroborate. I think you would probably get away with a 15 to 20 minute charge if you were using Tesla superchargers. They can deliver a lot of range very quickly. Below is an example of a Model 3 gaining 100 miles in 7 minutes.

https://electrek.co/2019/07/02/tesla-supercharger-v3-range-minutes/

• 2% – 10 miles – 0 mins (126 kW)
• 5% – 16 miles – 1 min (250 kW)
• 20% – 62 miles – 4 mins (250 kW)
• 21% – 65 miles – 4.5 mins (Taper from peak starts – 248 kW)
• 30% – 92 miles – 6 mins (218 kW)
• 40% – 123 miles – 8.5 mins (179 kW)
• 50% – 153 miles – 11 mins (142 kW)
• 60% – 184 miles – 14.5 mins (108 kW)
• 70% – 213 miles – 19 mins (87 kW)
• 80% – 245 miles – 24.5 mins (56 kW)
• 90% – 275 miles – 34 mins (36 kW)

So it does taper.

A Tesla Model 3 has about 350 miles of range. The Y would probably be similar. With the tandem on the top that might drop to say 200 miles worst case (just guessing). I'd say more like 250 but I am an optimist. So 5 stops seems reasonable. You might choose to do 6 or 7 20 minute stops or 4 30 minute stops I suppose. Still - 2 days does not seem totally unreasonable for 900 miles . If the drag and speed isn't as costly then obviously you could do fewer stops.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Food for thought , I see we had to fire up two coal fired Power Stations due to leccy demand ! You just wonder how we are all going to cope if we all drive about in leccy vehicles!