Flat faced dogs - is it right to ban them?

[DRM]

Pugs are actually quite good dogs apart from the excessive deformity of the nose, difficulty breathing, tendency towards overweight, skin infections in the folds of skin on face and body, etc. Character and behaviour is pretty good. Very good natured dogs.

If you get one without the excessive, breed standard deformities you can actually get a pretty good little dog. My gran had two good pedigree ones that were embarrassingly not flat nosed enough for breeding from or showing. The top breeder called them rejects and gave them away to my gran who lived far enough away that nobody would link them back to the breeder. Lovely rejects that I simply don't remember them having any breathing issues or snorting like a pig. They were possibly closer to the breed as shown maybe 100 years ago.

BTW the classic English bulldog is another such deformed breed standard. How the hell can the kennel club take a tall, athletic, strong and determined bull baiting/ fighting dog and turn it into a fat, stumpy, partially suffocating, unauthenticated dog like the ones winning breed at crafts and other KC shows? That's the worse than pugs because they were tall and athletic with a much longer muzzle. Pugs were always short, fat and short muzzled. For what they've done to that one British breed alone they should be sanctioned, let alone what they've caused to have happened to all the other breeds with issues due to breed standard breeding.

Well said, they should be closed down on grounds of animal cruelty alone imho

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Pugs are actually quite good dogs apart from the excessive deformity of the nose, difficulty breathing, tendency towards overweight, skin infections in the folds of skin on face and body, etc. Character and behaviour is pretty good. Very good natured dogs.

If you get one without the excessive, breed standard deformities you can actually get a pretty good little dog. My gran had two good pedigree ones that were embarrassingly not flat nosed enough for breeding from or showing. The top breeder called them rejects and gave them away to my gran who lived far enough away that nobody would link them back to the breeder. Lovely rejects that I simply don't remember them having any breathing issues or snorting like a pig. They were possibly closer to the breed as shown maybe 100 years ago.

BTW the classic English bulldog is another such deformed breed standard. How the hell can the kennel club take a tall, athletic, strong and determined bull baiting/ fighting dog and turn it into a fat, stumpy, partially suffocating, unauthenticated dog like the ones winning breed at crafts and other KC shows? That's the worse than pugs because they were tall and athletic with a much longer muzzle. Pugs were always short, fat and short muzzled. For what they've done to that one British breed alone they should be sanctioned, let alone what they've caused to have happened to all the other breeds with issues due to breed standard breeding.

Exactly the KC should be ashamed of itself
They has warning with labs and Alsations hip problems but just let the breeders carry on with flat nosed dog and refused to do anything with the breed standards

as said - animal cruelty is not too harsh a word
(OK for the pedants - 2 words)

 

[simongt]

Alsatians are the same, been bred to have a sloped back end, when they were never like that originally, leading to problems with their rear legs and difficulty walking,

When I was in the police, during basic training we had a talk from a dog handler. This was one of the issues he raised which made selecting Alsatians for police work quite tricky as the trend caused issues with dislocated hips when jumping obstacles.
And that was nearly fifty years ago - !

 

[simongt]

One thing that I wonder about is tail docking was banned in the UK in 2006, unless apparently for 'medical reasons'.
Seventeen years later, there seem to be a heck of a lot of dogs around with medical issues.
And don't get me started on 'fashion breeding' - !

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

When I was in the police, during basic training we had a talk from a dog handler. This was one of the issues he raised which made selecting Alsatians for police work quite tricky as the trend caused issues with dislocated hips when jumping obstacles.
And that was nearly fifty years ago - !

I remember reading that the Police have bred their own Alsatians for quite a while - partly due to this and partly because the breed and also because the breeders were breeding in weaker bones and smaller dogs
Whereas the Police want strong bones and big dogs

 

[Time Waster]

Docked tails I understand are still allowed for working dogs. Terriers and gundog that work can be prone to damage of the full tail and loss of the dew claw. As a result those who work them I think can get them removed by vets.

My gran once told me that where they occasionally got taken to in North Wales as a kid had an old guy on the beach who would trim your dog's claws and dock its tail too. Trouble was he used his teeth!

I saw a pet dog last week that growing up I always saw with a docked tail. I couldn't work out what looked different about it. My gran once had that breed but it looked different. Then I saw it move its tail where it was hanging down. It was pointed, long and hairy. I was used to seeing it short and thick as that was really its base not tip. It was a Yorkie dog.

No matter what you think of docked tails there's supposed to be a use fit that being done for certain working dogs. What has no justification is ear trimming and modification. If you see a dog with pointed ears or excessively short they could have been illegally modified. However most who own such modified dogs don't seem to know or care that they aren't a natural look.

 

[simongt]

However, occasionally I come across maybe a Boxer or Welsh Corgi with a full tail. So nice to see.

 

[rogerzilla]

I saw a more normal-looking pug the other day. They started out ok but were selectively bred into the deformed monstrosities you usually see now. Google Hogarth's self-portrait to see what a pug originally looked like.

 

[simongt]

On that point, popped into our vet today to collect a prescription and whilst I was waiting, heard a wheezing sound. It was a French bulldog with a face almost as flat as a snooker table. Small wonder it couldn't breath properly.

 

[Time Waster]

Halfway down in this link is an image showing the changes in the skull of British bulldog over last 50 years apparently. Shocking!

Link about Brachycephalic dogs

 

[Tomm Williams]

I’ve owned a number of Pugs and currently have two. This entire subject of unhealthy life is being thrown around with a VERY broad brush. Should you take no concern with how you feed and exercise your Pug (or any other animal or human?) of course you wind up with an absolutely compromised creature.
It truly is a sign of how much time we have on our hands that THIS is the focus of attention. Start a list of every canine that is susceptible to some form of malady and let’s see what’s left ? Caring for a Pug is quite easy if you simply pay attention to their needs and don’t expect them to be something they are not.

Absurd…….

 

[FishFright]

I’ve owned a number of Pugs and currently have two. This entire subject of unhealthy life is being thrown around with a VERY broad brush. Should you take no concern with how you feed and exercise your Pug (or any other animal or human?) of course you wind up with an absolutely compromised creature.
It truly is a sign of how much time we have on our hands that THIS is the focus of attention. Start a list of every canine that is susceptible to some form of malady and let’s see what’s left ? Caring for a Pug is quite easy if you simply pay attention to their needs and don’t expect them to be something they are not.

Absurd…….

What's left is the healthy breeds.

 

[rogerzilla]

Google Hogarth, the famous engraver and painter. You'll see a self portrait with his pug (he was devoted to pugs). That's what a pug SHOULD look like, and did before the stupid selective breeding.

 

[Chromatic]

Google Hogarth, the famous engraver and painter. You'll see a self portrait with his pug (he was devoted to pugs). That's what a pug SHOULD look like, and did before the stupid selective breeding.

I've just had a look, what a difference to how they look now.

 

[Drago]

Nothing wrong with selective breeding when its is done with thought and consideration to genuinely improve the health or utility of the breed. I'm a fan of field labradors, selective breeding done cleverly and well.

Its when it is done for the sake of appearance, most particularly to meet current breed fashions at dog shows, is where it tends to go a bit wrong.

German Shepherds with horribly rearward-splayed back legs is my pet hate, but shepherd's from conventional breed working stock are magnificent animals. Selective breeding gave us both as it is a force for good or evil.