Flexitarian diet to save the world, and maybe you/us

[mudsticks]

Don't quite understand you if you are refering to the one in my initial post. Surely it's rather flexible? It's not saying eat only fruit and veg and no meat. You can mix it as you see fit. It's not "one size fits all" at all. Just had my patented past meal - about 60g pasta, one sausage as mince donor, ton of small tomatoes from south London market, tinned tomatoes, sun dried, tomato from a tube, various spices. Other bits. Feel great. Not heavy at all - easy to digest. As only a small bit was meat and first meat I have had in maybe two or three days.

Tsk Tsk, for all this moderation Blue Hills.
You must have very definite, totally this, or totally that views...

I am 100% correct and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.

All this "Well it depends " And "Context is everything" etc etc

Is really very tiresome for those of us who have come here for a proper old controversy, and slanging match.

Personally, I would have served the above with a green salad, being a bit of a chlorophyllaphile, but otherwise it sounds very nice..

 

[Blue Hills]

and I'm now in the pub with a pint

a very balanced diet - no hair shirt.

 

[mudsticks]

Sat at home, with bottle of beer, pizza...

And salad.
As you say, balance in all things

Salut!!

 

[classic33]

and I'm now in the pub with a pint

a very balanced diet - no hair shirt.

One in each hand?

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

A meat tax would be a good idea....

This is the latest vegan nut job idea by the looks of it. Some strident vegan campaigner type was being interviewed on the radio the other week, and it was the same old story. How all the rest of us should give up meat just because a bunch of weirdos who want to "save the planet"and "stop exploiting animals" think it's OK to try to impose their oddball beliefs on everybody else. They seem to have a lot in common with the militant feminist brigade, in fact there is probably a lot of overlap between the two groups. If an individual chooses not to eat meat or whatever, that's their own personal choice, but I'm getting sick of these various pious campaigning type trying to convert the rest of us. It isn't going to work; I eat some sort of meat virtually every day and I have no intention of changing to please anyone else.

 

[mudsticks]

I think the idea of the meat tax is largely to do with reflecting its true cost in environmental impact terms.

It is a luxury food if you do the figures.
Even pasture fed meat, where animals are finished primarily on grass.

Like how we probably do need to tax polluting fossil fues at a higher rate if we are going to address climate change, in order that we hand on a habitable planet.

It doesn't have to stop people eating meat altogether, but it might acknowledge its true cost.
It's not a left wing conspiracy against meat eaters, its just recognising reality.

I'm no big fan of the moralising tone taken by vegans either..There is a lot of anthropomorphasising that goes on.

Meat isn't murder, meat is the flesh of slaughtered animals, which yes should be raised and killed with respect but if you calculate the true cost, especiially of the cost of the food those animals eat, it does need to be more expensive.
Currently the 'cost' of cheap meat is externalised onto the environment. And poor animal welfare.

I raise pigs outside where they have a nice time rootling around outside, they are killed in a small abattoir locally, so they have a short journey to their low stress end.

But raising animals properly like this is costly, it doesn't mean you can't have a bacon sarnie now and then, but it will cost lore.
Tastes amazing though, and you can enjoy it even more knowing those animals have had a decent life, and a x compassionate death.

Of course if you don't recognise the importance of, or care about any of the on the ground issues surrounding meat production then all of this will fall on deaf ears. And the whole polarised, and ill informed shouting match continues.

But it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

 

[Fab Foodie]

This is the latest vegan nut job idea by the looks of it. Some strident vegan campaigner type was being interviewed on the radio the other week, and it was the same old story. How all the rest of us should give up meat just because a bunch of weirdos who want to "save the planet"and "stop exploiting animals" think it's OK to try to impose their oddball beliefs on everybody else. They seem to have a lot in common with the militant feminist brigade, in fact there is probably a lot of overlap between the two groups. If an individual chooses not to eat meat or whatever, that's their own personal choice, but I'm getting sick of these various pious campaigning type trying to convert the rest of us. It isn't going to work; I eat some sort of meat virtually every day and I have no intention of changing to please anyone else.

That’s ok. I can’t argue against ignorance.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I think the idea of the meat tax is largely to do with reflecting its true cost in environmental impact terms.

It is a luxury food if you do the figures.
Even pasture fed meat, where animals are finished primarily on grass.

Like how we probably do need to tax polluting fossil fues at a higher rate if we are going to address climate change, in order that we hand on a habitable planet.

It doesn't have to stop people eating meat altogether, but it might acknowledge its true cost.
It's not a left wing conspiracy against meat eaters, its just recognising reality.

I'm no big fan of the moralising tone taken by vegans either..There is a lot of anthropomorphasising that goes on.

Meat isn't murder, meat is the flesh of slaughtered animals, which yes should be raised and killed with respect but if you calculate the true cost, especiially of the cost of the food those animals eat, it does need to be more expensive.
Currently the 'cost' of cheap meat is externalised onto the environment. And poor animal welfare.

I raise pigs outside where they have a nice time rootling around outside, they are killed in a small abattoir locally, so they have a short journey to their low stress end.

But raising animals properly like this is costly, it doesn't mean you can't have a bacon sarnie now and then, but it will cost lore.
Tastes amazing though, and you can enjoy it even more knowing those animals have had a decent life, and a x compassionate death.

Of course if you don't recognise the importance of, or care about any of the on the ground issues surrounding meat production then all of this will fall on deaf ears. And the whole polarised, and ill informed shouting match continues.

But it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Absolutely.

 

[Blue Hills]

This is the latest vegan nut job idea by the looks of it. Some strident vegan campaigner type was being interviewed on the radio the other week, and it was the same old story. How all the rest of us should give up meat just because a bunch of weirdos who want to "save the planet"and "stop exploiting animals" think it's OK to try to impose their oddball beliefs on everybody else. They seem to have a lot in common with the militant feminist brigade, in fact there is probably a lot of overlap between the two groups. If an individual chooses not to eat meat or whatever, that's their own personal choice, but I'm getting sick of these various pious campaigning type trying to convert the rest of us. It isn't going to work; I eat some sort of meat virtually every day and I have no intention of changing to please anyone else.

Strong words there john. No idea how much meat you eat but you may possibly feel better with less. I think you are safe from police of any sort bursting in to snatch your chosen food. I don't agree with the idea of a meat tax - indirect taxes hit those on restricted incomes disproportionately.

 

[mudsticks]

[QUOTE 5510481, member: 9609"]very much so - it needs to become a luxury food that we can enjoy on special occasions.

Yes it does

it would be a win win win, better for the environment, better for the livestock and better for us[/QUOTE]

Strong words there john. No idea how much meat you eat but you may possibly feel better with less. I think you are safe from police of any sort bursting in to snatch your chosen food. I don't agree with the idea of a meat tax - indirect taxes hit those on restricted incomes disproportionately.

But this is also true, - we need to address many issues of 'good food availability for all'

I'm part of project, and Union work that looks at ways of making good food and diets available to everyone
Not just 'The Waitrose' brigade... A lot of this is to do with shortening supply chains, relocalusing, and getting more people into farming and food production.
De industrialing agriculture basically, so that its done for nutrition, environment and benefits people as well as being profitable.
And not relying so much on imports.

You could call it 'food justice' work I guess.
ATM the supermarkets take most of the profit, on average 8p in the pound gets back to the primary producer.

Gaining some traction with gov departments, but its complex work, with lots of different stakeholders.

An interesting time to be involved in both the practical, but also political farming scene.

 

[mudsticks]

[QUOTE 5510527, member: 9609"]and yet the biggest consumers of red and processed meats is from lower income households. (part of our society that also has the poorest health, is there a part connection?)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4351901/

High meat diets have been proven over and over again to be poor for our health, so if higher meat prices reduced our intake then that would be a good thing.

use the taxes raised from meat to subsidies fruit and veg.[/QUOTE]

We certainly need more support for local veg and fruit production in this country.
ATM there is barely none.

Cheap f&v is imported from places like Spain, where growing it is having consequences detailed above.

Yes poorer income households tend to have poorer diets.
Many causes there..
Availability of fresh food in that area, a disproportionate of their income being spent on inflated housing costs, so not much ££ for good quality food, people working long hours for low wages, so not having time, or energy to cook from scratch, etc etc.
Or even the facilities or knowledge in some cases.

Trouble is we have to be careful not to come across all nanny state, or judgey when talking at other peoples diets.

Even though the health benefits of increased f&v consumption are proven.

 

[Tiger10]

This idea is simply a sticking plaster for the real underlying problem.... too many people. It's simply putting the problem off and in the end there won't be room for many animals birds or insects unless they are prepared to live with us ie rats pigeons and cockroaches.

 

[mudsticks]

This idea is simply a sticking plaster for the real underlying problem.... too many people. It's simply putting the problem off and in the end there won't be room for many animals birds or insects unless they are prepared to live with us ie rats pigeons and cockroaches.

It's not either or though, in terms of addressing issues.
.
Birth rates in many Westernised countries are actually falling.
And we are the ones who do most of the consuming.
Wider availability of birth control, and true empowerment of women so that their status and security isn't all wrapped up in being married or having kids could help with that, a lot, but there's only so much we can fix.

We can however (or at least most of us can) do something about our daily food choices, and it does have an impact, on what is produced, and how.

You vote for "more of this please" with your ££ every time you go into a shop, or buy something online.

 

[Blue Hills]

It's not either or though, in terms of addressing issues.
.
Birth rates in many Westernised countries are actually falling.

Very true. Particularly in Italy. There must be something in the pasta.

 

[Threevok]

I've not eaten meat now for nearly two weeks - despite eyeing up the cat's food

If anything, my emissions have increased