FNRttC Friday Night Ride to the Coast to Southend-on-Sea 30th April 2010

[topcat1]

So the SMRBTL
Stevevw Davywalnuts Tc2 Tc1

I decided to wait for the bike shop to open to get some more tubes, we left Cayopro and his friend who were going to spend the day with family in Southend.

Rode up the hill and walked through the high st and came upon the General Lee from the dukes of hazzard and the Torino from starsky and hutch. Innertubes bought we were off (thanks Del for the directions).

Riding at a more leisurely pace we reached Pitsea where steve heads nw and i had a flat.

We basically followed the ride back but skirted j31 and went through Grays and Purfleet where i had a gear mishap which turned into a clipless moment and had me laughing for a couple of minutes on the grass.

We stopped off at the rspb for some tea then headed into town, at Bank we saw this

Onward Parliament square was closed so there was gridlock along the embankment we crossed the river then pointed Davy in the right direction and said our goodbyes.

All in all very different but still great fun, i'd like to thank Simon Adrian User10571 Charlotte and Julian Kim? Matthew Pippa TimO Steve Davy Tc2 everyone who helped Andrew -Rachael Kathy Ian Andy and everyone .
Another one for the diary
tc1

 

[TimO]

2. GPS track published amongst waymarkers and TECs so that they can be 100% sure of the route (we just followed our noses in the last 20 miles). If anyone's techhy enough to use Google Latitude, one at the front and one at the back would be amazing.

Having never used a phone which has the power to do more than send an SMS, can the current generation of PDA-phones run multiple GPS aware apps? I know the iPhone doesn't seem to do multi-tasking, but can others (Android being what mainly comes to mind) run say Latitude and a suitable mapping app, and without running out of battery life if used for the entire FNRttC?

It would be rather cool if the ride Leader could know exactly where the front and back of the ride was, and if any waypointers had suitable phones they could also check to make sure that they hadn't been left behind.

Failing that, does anyone fancy writing a suitable app?

Seriously though, an app which was aware of the route (ie they could all automagically grab the route from a central server) and could even update the directions if it needed to be changed en-route, as well as showing where the ends of the ride were (possibly with automatic flashing red puncture/mechanical indicators) would be truly awesome. I've got some idea how I'd write that, but don't know enough about the API on phones.

 

[redfalo]

Another idea would be to use Twitter for updating positions and problems. You don´t even need a smartphone sending a Twitter feed, you just need an account with them and a mobile that is connected to this account. Then you can send an ordinary text message to a telephone number run by Twitter. It will be online within seconds. One would have to include the tag #fnrrtc, and anybody with a twitter account and a smartphone would be able to find it. (For reading the feed on the FNRttC, you do need a smartphone.)

 

[MacB]

Simon, I think you're being a little hard on yourself, and the ride, here. It may be that this is an inevitable result of the incredible success the rides have enjoyed to date. People have confidence and trust in this ride possibly to the point where over-confidence has appeared on the horizon. TimO makes a very good point in that the ride is generally made up of adults. The assistance and support are fantastic but your introductory e-mails leave us in no doubt as to our responsibilities around ourselves and our bikes. Charlotte also makes good points around preparation from a Tecs viewpoint. However individuals should have the necessary basics for their own bike at least. We also shouldn't expect Tecs to be carrying all that they often do at their own expense.

I'd be happy to bung some dosh into a general Tec pool, say £10 to start with on the Whitstable ride? I know a big thing about this ride is that it's free and all the assistance is given voluntarily. But I don't feel comfortable with the idea of the 'usual suspects, needing to keep Tec supplies out of their own pockets.

 

[StuAff]

Simon, I think you're being a little hard on yourself, and the ride, here. It may be that this is an inevitable result of the incredible success the rides have enjoyed to date. People have confidence and trust in this ride possibly to the point where over-confidence has appeared on the horizon. TimO makes a very good point in that the ride is generally made up of adults. The assistance and support are fantastic but your introductory e-mails leave us in no doubt as to our responsibilities around ourselves and our bikes. Charlotte also makes good points around preparation from a Tecs viewpoint. However individuals should have the necessary basics for their own bike at least. We also shouldn't expect Tecs to be carrying all that they often do at their own expense.

I'd be happy to bung some dosh into a general Tec pool, say £10 to start with on the Whitstable ride? I know a big thing about this ride is that it's free and all the assistance is given voluntarily. But I don't feel comfortable with the idea of the 'usual suspects, needing to keep Tec supplies out of their own pockets.

+1 to all the above. Certainly wouldn't hurt to buy a big job lot of inner tubes (Ribble seem to have permanent Conti bulk buy offers, Cycle World here in Pompey have three for one on Bontrager, again seemingly constantly). But everyone needs to ensure they carry what they need- or might need. For example, I had one inner tube (that's all I've got in 406 size), two sets of four AA spares (front Cateye & Hope), one pair of teeny N-type ones for the rear Cateye, multi-tool, tyre levers, a spare rear light, mini track pump, and shock pump- which I needed as it turns out. And as Charlotte rightly points out, those of us with tougher commute/touring spec tyres (Marathons- any of 'em- etc) seem to have far fewer problems than racing spec tyres. They might be slower, but not if you keep getting visitations...

On the whole techy issue: Olaf's got a good point with the Twitter idea. Simple & effective, at least as long as enough people have smartphones. Tim, iPhones will have multi-tasking as of the forthcoming OS 4.0, multiple GPS apps perhaps (no idea about competitors). However, GPS is notorious for being a battery-killer on smartphones, don't think any of the current crop could last an FNR with GPS on the whole time. You'd need extra batteries/charging units to manage. Nice idea to have a live tracking app- saw something like that running online the other week (preview ride of a sportive, you could see where the riders were, speeds, etc)- whether such a thing is available or even practical for smartphones, pass...

 

[StuAff]

The problem with the Twitter plan is that it does require people to stop and send text messages to the Twitter server. If you are going to do that, it is as easy to phone each other.

True...

 

[dellzeqq]

okay.......

the TEC thing is difficult. Basically we have three or four regulars and two occasionals who can fix a puncture. The rest of us just play at it - and I'm including myself, and people better than me, in the playing category. Only one of the top team was with us on Friday, and I had already decided to give him the night off, so when Martin didn't make it, poor Charlotte got lumbered.

As for supplies - I will ask around. I don't want people to be out of pocket. Having said that, I have already discussed it with one TEC who was keen to point out that he didn't mind in the least.

Maps and satnavthingys I'll think about, but as of now I'm not convinced. I'm an admirer of the Arsenal off-side trap. If you're going to have a system make it as simple as possible. One or two people wait at a junction. The TECs come by and shout 'all-up'. If people know the route ahead of time I can't change it. And, lets face it, the system has worked like clockwork time and time and time again, even to Whitstable, which is a far trickier route.

I've had an offer of help on the safety talk which I'm going to take up. Andrew's off happened on one of the safest roads we go on, and involved very esperienced cylists, and, as I've said, I now need to take more account of the mix of cyclists on the ride, rather than just addressing myself to the less experienced, and also keep an eye on the shape of things on the road. And I'm going to remind myself to do the right thing on the ride more often, and involve some of the Wayfinders in looking out for problems, which, as you know, some of them do anyway. I'm confident that I can increase the pool of Wayfinders, albeit slowly. I'm going to speak to certain folk about their choice of tyres.

And I'm going to go to the top TEC types and ask for their advice, because I'm keen to share the burden around, and yet, at the same time, know the difference between Martin or Tim H changing a tyre ('now, Mr. Schwalbe Marathon, we don't want any trouble here, do we?') and my changing a tyre.

I'm not being hard on myself, Mac - I'm in a line of work that seeks to reduce risk, and does so by conveying to a broad spectrum of people that things should be done in a certain way. I know full well that the FNRttC organisation and safety record is pretty decent, but I do look to improve. Compared to construction sites it's very, very good (you don't realise what an uphill struggle site safety is until you've seen a man drop 13 foot of 8 by 8 timber on his own testicles...)

And sometimes things just don't work out - the toilets at Woodgrange Park, all personally inspected on Thursday afternoon were in ****ed by the early hours of Saturday - and so you have to shrug your shoulders and think it through again. That's life.

Most people come out to forget their cares, and to enjoy a chat on empty roads. I'm keen to let them do that, but I've got to ensure I've got all the help I need to make it happen.

 

[Aperitif]

I didn't even make it to Hyde Park Corner but my attempts to unlock my HTC by drawing on the flat screen, in the rain, with my fingertip covered in tyre black crap and oozing blood was infantile to say the least!

It was a bit of an accumulation of bad luck this time was it not? There are usually 'cross checks' that help the ride roll into town with the minimum of disruption. And I think Al is right about looking after oneself...
How's Andrew? And has the cat come out of hiding?

 

[CopperBrompton]

And has the cat come out of hiding?

Apparently Dell took executive action with the cat.

 

[beatleandrew]

Google Latitude looks like it would be a good resource and has the advantage of running in a mobile web browser rather than requiring a bespoke application. It therefore will run on pretty much any location-aware smart phone, be it Blackberry, Android or iPhone. It would be nice if you could display a gpx route over the map as well. I now have a handlebar mount for my phone as well, so viewing group progress while on the move would be fairly easy (glad I wasn't using it on Friday's ride though!)

Does anyone currently use Google Latitude? If so, do you know whether it continues to broadcast your position while the phone is locked? It could be a drain on battery to keep the phone unlocked, or else a bit inaccurate if it stopped broadcasting position while locked.

While way finding in the past, I have on occasion found myself standing about on corners for a long time and wondering whether I'd missed the TEC group. If all potential TECs and way finders were able to view each other's positions with something like Google Latitude, it would be very reassuring to those performing ride duties, in addition to making it possible to ride up or down the group to locate people.

 

[kimble]

I ran the Google latitude client on my Nokia E90 during the Brighton ride, to see how well it would work. The main issue is that when the phone isn't being actively interacted with it switches from GPS to cellular positioning to save power. Which works well enough in the urban areas, but once you get out into the country with larger cells and more interesting topography the precision drops to "within a few km". It had me back and forward all over the place while on Ditchling Beacon.

Useful, but not good enough to reliably show the difference between the TEC group taking an alternative route vs a random positioning error. It also only updates every 3 minutes or so (less frequently if you're not moving), so it won't show you whether someone has stopped or not.

For reference, running Latitude for the duration of the Brighton ride almost but not quite entirely exhausted my E90's battery (if I were doing it again, I'd bring my rectifier gubbins and switch to dynamo power once there's daylight). I can't vouch for the Latitude client on other platforms (other than my WM5 HTC Universal, which is lucky to get a couple of hours use from a full battery), but the Nokia is generally very good for battery life.

More generally, much as I love technology, there's a lot to be said for the KISS principle (no football analogies, sorry). I wouldn't want to rely on something with so many potential failure modes. The established waymarker/TEC system has very little to go wrong, and our deviation from the correct route could have be easily avoided by publishing a canonical route (GPX, or audax-style routesheet) in advance of the ride for everyone who feels inclined to print out or upload to their gadgetry of choice.

 

[arallsopp]

I'm signed into latitude 24/7 on the blackberry. Its supposed to give mrs arallsopp a bit of comfort in knowing I'm on my way home, and a bit of heads up to put the chips in

In reality, it needs a decent gps signal to be certain as to my whereabouts, and a data signal to be able to publish it. The result is that it often holds onto my last 'good' location for half hour or more, then jumps 10 miles down the road when I'm next near a decent signal.

I don't think it'd work for FNRttCs yet, as you'd never know if the phone had been stationary for 30 mins with a mechanical, or simply in the back of beyond.

Fixed and published route would be good though. Plenty of GPS units in the pack to keep us on the indirect and narrow.

 

[deckertim]

I love technology, but I have to say that a good old fashioned map is still hard to beat. I ended up with the last group in Stanford Le Hope and it was quite useful that I had this map with me. Andy who was in our group had a GPS unit, but that suddenly gave up the ghost.
I didn't know the planned route, but I can read a map so knew where I was. I have a large scale atlas (1:100,000) and I scan the pages in and join them up in photoshop. I can then print this on A3 paper. I think it would be a good idea to let people have a copy of this corridor type map beforehand so they could print it out. They wouldn't need to know the route, but it could be useful if they got lost or split up. I won't be able to make the next ride, but I will happily post a copy of a map for the route down to Whitstable.
Tim

 

[StuAff]

I'm inclined to agree with Simon on the whole satmap thing, overall. K.I.S.S. is a very sensible good principle to run the ride on. In the few weeks I've had my Garmin, I've tended to stick with using it on rides as standard bike computer/data logger rather than navigation aid. For FNRs, I'd strongly suggest it as a backup, first and foremost- it certainly wouldn't hurt to have a few canonical routes to call up if need be, but those can't allow for changes- umpteen potholes on one road so we take another, road closures & diversions, and so on. November's Brighton ride is a case in point, we followed a very different route from the classic Portnalls-Turner's Hill-Ditchling (etc).

The GPS is very handy to have in order to get your bearings and check you are where you think you are if you're not sure, and/or find out if you really are lost. But trying to follow a pre-programmed course or track can be hit and miss. It's told me I'm off course when I know I'm not, indicating roads that aren't there and not showing the ones that really are (and this is with the add-on City Navigator package not the utterly hopeless basemap). And this is on roads I know very well.... I had a track for getting from Fenchurch Street to Waterloo on Saturday, which I loaded up and promptly didn't follow. The compass came in handy though..Then there was my experience in Wales last year with chums from BikeRadar. Most of the others had 605s or 705s, with routes for the day prearranged and loaded up. Did they agree all the time? Nah. 'My Garmin says this'. 'My Garmin says that'. Navigation was occasionally done by quorum....
As for smartphones (as opposed to dedicated GPS devices), for the purpose of saving battery life I'd try to avoid using them as nav/tracking devices. They should be first and foremost phones, right? Much to be said for verbal communication....

 

[redfalo]

The problem with the Twitter plan is that it does require people to stop and send text messages to the Twitter server. If you are going to do that, it is as easy to phone each other.

That´s true. Twitter would not work as smoothly as a perfectly running Latitude. However, it might be an option if the TECs would just text somethink like "2.35am, puncture at xy #fnrttc" and "2.45 rolling again #fnrttc". Then a lonely waypointer standing around at empty corners could figure out if it still makes sense to wait (provided they know where they are.) The advantage compared to a phone call is that you can get the message through to more people than just one person. Admittedly, such a system might be to burdensome and possibly creates more confusion than insight... (But imagine the fun for people who cannot take part in the ride but would be able to follow the twitter feed... )

Since this was only my 2nd ride I do not have completely understood how the waypointers are chosen. Do you instantaneously decide who marks a corner? Should anybody taking part in the ride do it from time to time? (I was feeling weird passing some corners which were not marked by a waypointer without stopping there...) Or do you have a certain number of riders who in advance know that they are waypointers? Do the waypointers know the mobile phone numbers of the TECs so they could call and find out if it makes any sense to wait longer?

Regarding the GPS discussion: I think a proper route would not be necessary. Having the most important waypoints of the ride - those towns which surely will be passed - would be sufficient, IMHO.